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I agree about the cost, Space X has turned going into space on its head. The first time they sucessfully landed the rocket vertically on the barge I was cheering! Buck Rodgers here we come.
I saw a short program on TV recently where there is a new start up space company using a 3D printer to build the launch vehicles. Now that is tech! They claim it is better than the old way. They had to design and build the equipment for the printer. Me ? I have trouble keeping the ink from clogging in my printer.
 
I carry a .357 magnum light weight J-Frame. It is no fun to shoot .357 magnum rounds in. .38 Special are fun to shoot, but 755 fps with a 158 grain bullet strikes me as at the low end of warm and fuzzy. I reload 158 grain Gold Dot hollow Points at about 900 fps and though these 'rock my boat' I find them manageable. I have heard people say do not carry with reloaded ammo. What are your thoughts on this ?

As a former LEO, we were taught and instructed by both the local city DA and the county Prosecuting Attorney to NOT use reloads regardless of how much better we thought our ammo was or could be over factory ammo.
The idea was that ammo manufacturers spend a LOT of money on developing loads for the purposes of SD and an individual cannot (generally) hope to have the equipment and testing facilities to ensure proper operation at any give time or situation.
And while both admitted that neither had either prosecuted or defended an officer or Deputy (in my case) for such an occurrence, they admonished that we would NOT want to be the first test case because of the use of our, or any other, ammo assembler short of the Big Boys.
Besides, they reminded us, of all the shootings they'd had to investigate and/or defend as the result of an LEO involved shooting, the issued ammo we were using always did what it was designed to do as long as the LEO involved did his or her job WRT bullet placement.
So while the ammo you'd like to carry and shoot may be uncomfortable, remember you won't be shooting hundreds of rounds and in the heat of the moment with your adrenaline pumping, it's not likely you'll feel the discomfort of discharging the rounds anyway.
Obviously you need to practice with your desired carry ammo so you know where your rounds impact, and that time spent might be uncomfortable but you NEED to know where your rounds will impact as your sights are showing.
And like I mentioned above about not really feeling any pain in the heat of the moment, like when hunting you'll likely not hear the enormous bang of the discharged round or the recoil into your hand(s), so hopefully that might help you in your decision making

Good Luck.
 
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Thank you for your service. Not something I could do.
Uncle was in the FBI and I got to take one of the mental tests when I was a young lad. The guy that graded it told my father and uncle that I would shoot someone if the situation was correct. Dads response was great, no bubblegum. (father was a judge) He had trained me for the most part up until that time.
 
I sometimes miss wearing the uniform, carrying a Badge and sidearm but in today's environment, notwithstanding the fact many citizens resent LEO's, too many department functionary types are all too easy to throw the LEO under the bus in the scheme of political expediency.
More than a bullet (AND more than a penetrating object like a knife, etc., which I've endured twice), THAT hurts more IMHO.
So it takes a MUCH better Man or Woman in this day and age to do the job.
I had my fill and no way was I going to allow myself to end up as a poster boy for some jerkwad looking to suck up to those in the Ivory Tower.
Nowadays I am happy to do ME but will walk across burning coals to assist ANY LEO in need.
Thanks for your kind words.
 
I sometimes miss wearing the uniform, carrying a Badge and sidearm but in today's environment, notwithstanding the fact many citizens resent LEO's, too many department functionary types are all too easy to throw the LEO under the bus in the scheme of political expediency.........

I feel the same way. Best job I ever had until it wasn't.
 
I grew up in a family attached to the law. The strife we as a nation are experiencing is due partly to the Ivory tower and the good old boys. Both of which need to be flushed from the system. It is time for a change. Watching TV I do not understand the concept of arguing/fighting with an LEO. Who the hell teaches this to people? Then on the other side is how is shooting someone in the back OK? I do not get it! When ever I have inter-reactions with the law I am respectful and provide the officer no reason to be afraid/on edge. I am a large guy with a carry permit. So being friendly/respectful is the path I always choose.
The idiots that think that colored lives matter do not get the big picture. All lives matter equally. Demonstrations are fine, I encourage them, destruction is not. The masses really need to accept the concept of peaceful demonstrations. Sadly they will not. IMO

May all of your shifts be mundane and dull.
 
Yes I do,

But the brass I use as well as the powder and projectile I use matches with what is available commercially. So not for sure if the investigators would even be able to tell. Except that maybe I loaded a little extra heavier.
 
Yep... after Mas said it will not be a factor in a court case... I reload 147 grain .355 9mm Federal Premium, HydraShok over Bullseye powder; secure in the knowledge that in a "him or me" scenario, I intend for it to be me left standing.
 
Yes I do,

But the brass I use as well as the powder and projectile I use matches with what is available commercially. So not for sure if the investigators would even be able to tell. Except that maybe I loaded a little extra heavier.

Once the forensics folks start their investigations, you will NOT be able to hide the fact you used reloaded ammo.
Burn rates and patterns are well documented by the manufacturers and any LEO forensics team that needs the information as part of their investigation will have that access.
Besides, we have NO idea what powder is loaded in any given cartridge case, regardless of caliber. Manufacturers intentionally keep those trade secrets.
Some even blend their own powders, some using several different types of powders to keep pressures sane and velocities up to what are safe and consistent.
So just because we might use a Brand X case with (maybe) the same Brand bullet, powders might be different as well as a primer.
All things to consider.
 
As a former LEO, we were taught and instructed by both the local city DA and the county Prosecuting Attorney to NOT use reloads regardless of how much better we thought our ammo was or could be over factory ammo.
...
Good Luck.
That's the exact reason why Mas Ayoob is against the use of reloads and why I also advocate against reloads in my classes for (self) defense purposes. Your defensive ammo should be factory loads for evidentiary reasons because you will be the subject of a homicide investigation. The question will be was it a justifiable homicide.
 
I'm new to this discussion but I don't understand the concern. If you aim a firearm at a person and you pull the trigger, you have used deadly force whether the trigger pull resulted in a squib or a near nuclear reaction.
 
I'm new to this discussion but I don't understand the concern. If you aim a firearm at a person and you pull the trigger, you have used deadly force whether the trigger pull resulted in a squib or a near nuclear reaction.

In Texas, it doesn't matter for self defense reasons if you use reloads or factory ammo. Not even allowed to be brought up in Texas courts if it goes that far. Simply because of how our castle doctrine law, and stand your ground law were written. However other states could be different. As well as federal courts if it was a shooting on federal land could view it differently. Personally, I don't see what it would matter if it was a justified and legal shooting. If it ISN'T a legal justified shooting, then it might be of concern in the sentencing phase.

Using commercial or a reload might matter if someone other then the person or animal you were shooting was injured by your projectile(s). Such as if the projectile(s) pass through the intended target (person or animal) and hit an Otherwise innocent bystander. Then it probably would matter as well. Especially if you used a heavy load, or a projectile that isn't otherwise available in commercial ammo.

The only other time it would matter is liability if your reloads malfunctioned for some reason. Such as you get a squib, and then fire another shot, and your gun blows up injuring an innocent person beside you and not the person or animal you were shooting at. If it was commercial ammo that malfunctioned, the company that made the ammo could be held liable for damages. (Theoretically speaking)

One last aspect to using commercial or reloads is reliability. Quality commercial ammunition is extremely reliable. Unless your exceptionally good and accurate with producing quality reloads, there is a chance of having poor reliability. In 50,000+ reloads that I have done in my life, I know I have had at least 90-100 rounds that had bad primers. I have had at least 50-60 squibs. Luckily all of my squibs are those rounds that got zero powder loaded in them and they caused an immediate jam in my semi automatics. In my defense rounds, I am very slow and meticulous, so I know those are highly reliable.
 
Trust me, if you are ever involved in a self--defense shooting, you WILL be sued. It will cost you everything you own to defend yourself. The less issues that can be brought up the better. You really don't want to pay ammo/ballistic/wound experts to test your ammo and testify. I've been involved in lawsuits and the costs to defend are astronomical. Do yourself a favor, find a good factory load to keep in your carry/protection gun. The perceived benefits of your favorite handload are far outweighed by the liabilities.

As a final note, I teach CCW's that shooting someone is the 2nd worse thing that can happen to you. Having them shoot/harm you or a loved one is the 1st. Do your absolute best to prevent/avoid a scenario where you have to make the choice. Read Gavin DeBecker's book The Gift of Fear for a good starting point.
 
Trust me, if you are ever involved in a self--defense shooting, you WILL be sued. It will cost you everything you own to defend yourself. The less issues that can be brought up the better. You really don't want to pay ammo/ballistic/wound experts to test your ammo and testify. I've been involved in lawsuits and the costs to defend are astronomical. Do yourself a favor, find a good factory load to keep in your carry/protection gun. The perceived benefits of your favorite handload are far outweighed by the liabilities.

As a final note, I teach CCW's that shooting someone is the 2nd worse thing that can happen to you. Having them shoot/harm you or a loved one is the 1st. Do your absolute best to prevent/avoid a scenario where you have to make the choice. Read Gavin DeBecker's book The Gift of Fear for a good starting point.
If you find yourself in a situation where you are required to shoot to save yourself or someone else from death or serious injury, then you world has just changed anyway. Get ready for a rough ride. The legal system is not arranged for fair, and any involvement with it will be awakening into a nightmare. But then you are right, being the victim is worse. However they both carry a sense of victimization.
 
[Yep, if the system was set up fair attorneys would not be allowed to take the case on commission. They would also be required to post a bond to cover your legal expenses if you prevail. Like I tell my kids, life ain't fair....get over it.
 
[Yep, if the system was set up fair attorneys would not be allowed to take the case on commission. They would also be required to post a bond to cover your legal expenses if you prevail. Like I tell my kids, life ain't fair....get over it.
I guess it comes down to the old adage, TRIED BY 12, OR CARRIED BY 6. Your only choice is to remove as much liability ammunition as possible. But when it really comes down to it, I would use whatever is at my disposal to defend myself, or others. Because they are going to litigate in bad faith anyway. At least I would still be here to see it.
 
Trust me, if you are ever involved in a self--defense shooting, you WILL be sued. It will cost you everything you own to defend yourself. The less issues that can be brought up the better. You really don't want to pay ammo/ballistic/wound experts to test your ammo and testify. I've been involved in lawsuits and the costs to defend are astronomical. Do yourself a favor, find a good factory load to keep in your carry/protection gun. The perceived benefits of your favorite handload are far outweighed by the liabilities.

As a final note, I teach CCW's that shooting someone is the 2nd worse thing that can happen to you. Having them shoot/harm you or a loved one is the 1st. Do your absolute best to prevent/avoid a scenario where you have to make the choice. Read Gavin DeBecker's book The Gift of Fear for a good starting point.

I agree. I'm STILL astonished that there are people who feel they are so good at reloading their rounds can surpass those of the people who are in the business of making ammunition.
More than that I think it is both ego and being too cheap to buy QUALITY ammo with a PROVEN track record.
My response to them is usually:

Is YOUR life and livelihood, or those of your FAMILY, really that inconsequential you'd begrudge a few measly dollars for something of known and proven worth?

But, worse yet, are those who are just bull headed and argumentative, regardless of the veracity of the topic.
Those I usually just snicker at them, drop my head down so they don't see me laughing and walk away.
Sometimes it just isn't worth arguing with a brick wall. I just hope they never find themselves in a situation where their decision could come back to bite them in the backside. Worse would be if a family member should be injured or worse because of penny pinching or financial ruin trying to defend themselves in a court of law.
SMDH
 
Trust me, if you are ever involved in a self--defense shooting, you WILL be sued. It will cost you everything you own to defend yourself. The less issues that can be brought up the better. You really don't want to pay ammo/ballistic/wound experts to test your ammo and testify. I've been involved in lawsuits and the costs to defend are astronomical. Do yourself a favor, find a good factory load to keep in your carry/protection gun. The perceived benefits of your favorite handload are far outweighed by the liabilities.

As a final note, I teach CCW's that shooting someone is the 2nd worse thing that can happen to you. Having them shoot/harm you or a loved one is the 1st. Do your absolute best to prevent/avoid a scenario where you have to make the choice. Read Gavin DeBecker's book The Gift of Fear for a good starting point.


Several things on that are changing though. Texas has a bill up that if the police rule a shooting as justified, the "victim" will not be allowed to sue. They also won't be allowed to sue if they survive and are convicted of a violent felony against you, or your home. The things that would otherwise make it a justified shooting. Several other states have protective measures against lawsuits as well. Even on the criminal side, things are getting a little easier for those still in red states with elected "red" DA's. Here in Texas, all shootings go through a grand jury hearing before a DA can pursue charges, but even with a grand jury's blessing some DA's have still refused to prosecute in several instances. Texas Grand Jury's tend to lean quite red.
The other thing is it's worth the invest to get involved and get a membership in either US Lawshield or USCCA. I have a membership in both. In both cases they will defend you all civil legal lawsuits as well as criminal as well. It is worth the investment.

but when it comes down to it.... I would rather be judged by 12 then carried by 6.

I would also rather be judged by 12, then see my loved ones carried by 6 as well, and in certain cases I would gladly go to jail if it stops my child from being carried by 6 as well.
I know many many others that feel the same way.
 
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Trust me, if you are ever involved in a self--defense shooting, you WILL be sued. It will cost you everything you own to defend yourself.

While I agree with the first part of your comment, I'm not sure "it will cost you everything to defend".

In today's litigious society anyone can sue someone for almost anything and find a lawyer to take the case.
If your TV wasn't so big, poor XXXX would have been able to carry it over your fence, not fallen and died. He would have turned into a brain surgeon making millions, so we're suing you for his future earnings.

I can't speak for other states but in Illinois and Arizona, a good attorney will not only will the case but likely be able to recover attorney's fees. A great attorney would follow up with a complaint to the state Bar, against the attorney for bringing the suit in the first place. The real rick is to know a good attorney before you have to hit Google to find one.
 

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