JavaScript is disabled
Our website requires JavaScript to function properly. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser settings before proceeding.
This is a often discussed issue, one that bears great thought! Let me paint a few different pictures here for your consideration! Are you willing to stand before a judge and jury of your peers and explain your choice of ammo? And is your choice of ammo in any way different from store bought? Is it labeled as extra H.D. or high expansion, or LEO only?
What about Caliber? Is your choice of a carry piece considered normal? Or is it a "Magnum" or otherwise more powerful then the normal weapons commonly carried? Here is where things get tricky, case in point, I carry a 10 MM auto, mainly because I live in large predator country, if I were to use that in a S.D. scenario, what would a jury of my peers be told by the lawyers? What if I carried a .357 Magnum, or a .44 Magnum? How would that play out in a court?
Then add in the Reloads, My Big 10 is still hard to find good quality defensive ammo for, so I'm faced with the choice, use .40 S&W, use inferior 10 MM factory ammo, or roll my own with proper bullets and powder to get it to work as intended! How would that factor into a court proceeing where the lawyers job is to find any fault they can with what you did, despite any justification you had! It all comes down to what a good lawyer can claim against you before a Judge and Jury!
For the record, I cannot recommend using any thing other then standard off the shelf ammo, and doing any thing else puts you at risk for additional scrutiny, and that can extend outside the courtroom if/when the Media get wind of it! It can also play against you in civil case brought against you after you are cleared in a criminal case! Some thoughts to think on here, do as you see best!
 
Here is another thought, there are an awful lot of Vets out there in this country, what do you think the chances are that Vet status plays in a case? I sure as hell don't wanna be a test case for any thing!
 
This is a often discussed issue, one that bears great thought! Let me paint a few different pictures here for your consideration! Are you willing to stand before a judge and jury of your peers and explain your choice of ammo? And is your choice of ammo in any way different from store bought? Is it labeled as extra H.D. or high expansion, or LEO only?
What about Caliber? Is your choice of a carry piece considered normal? Or is it a "Magnum" or otherwise more powerful then the normal weapons commonly carried? Here is where things get tricky, case in point, I carry a 10 MM auto, mainly because I live in large predator country, if I were to use that in a S.D. scenario, what would a jury of my peers be told by the lawyers? What if I carried a .357 Magnum, or a .44 Magnum? How would that play out in a court?
Then add in the Reloads, My Big 10 is still hard to find good quality defensive ammo for, so I'm faced with the choice, use .40 S&W, use inferior 10 MM factory ammo, or roll my own with proper bullets and powder to get it to work as intended! How would that factor into a court proceeing where the lawyers job is to find any fault they can with what you did, despite any justification you had! It all comes down to what a good lawyer can claim against you before a Judge and Jury!
For the record, I cannot recommend using any thing other then standard off the shelf ammo, and doing any thing else puts you at risk for additional scrutiny, and that can extend outside the courtroom if/when the Media get wind of it! It can also play against you in civil case brought against you after you are cleared in a criminal case! Some thoughts to think on here, do as you see best!

I believe it's in people's best interest to think this way when considering both the gun and ammo they carry. Though I'd love to carry my Sig P226 MK25, most of the time I carry a completely stock Glock 19. I'd much rather beat up the Glock than the Sig, and I wouldn't cry if the Glock was taken into evidence, but mostly I'm legitimately worried about how an attorney might portray the short-reset trigger, fiber optic front sight, etc.

I prefer Federal HST LE for my carry ammo over the Federal Personal Protection stuff, and it too concerns me what they might say about the LE designation (although it's widely and legally available for non-LE folks). I honestly don't even know if there's any difference these days.

3546.jpg

FP_PPD_P45HST2S_45Auto_R_522x418.png
 
so borderwarrior, the rhetoric is impressive as is the bravado regarding i treat my body, whopps sorry weapon, er or is that a handgun, like a temple and the proper mantra on why you pulled your service weapon, er handgun!

the second point is, you "feel little fear from the officers i trained" especially since you are an honoured and retired, still card carrying privileged member of the blue brotherhood as well as judicial system and prob carry under LEOSA as well as personally know all 35 good olde boys in blue plus 35 +/- sheriff and deputies in small town NM (14K).

it is no wonder you truly believe you do not fear the brotherhood nor the Deming judicial system you were and still for all intents a brother in blue as you still qualify on the police range every year huh?

JQPublic doesn't have the same connection to the brotherhood or judicial system so their treatment might, just might, be slightly different than yours in a SD situation?

thanks for your unbiased commentary.

"Not sufficient evidence to support charges."
LOL, I guess I may have seemed a little pompas, and for that I apologize. Sometimes it is nice to be a big fish in a little pond, but of course you also have you point about when leaving the little pond, I am still at the tender mercies of law enforcement, that I do not influence. But still, my handloads can in no way be considered comparable to today/s police loads. Most police are enthralled with 9mm and .40 . When I carry those I have a tendancy to carry store bought. But when I mustanged up through the ranks, .45 was and still is the love of my life.
 
Here is another thought, there are an awful lot of Vets out there in this country, what do you think the chances are that Vet status plays in a case? I sure as hell don't wanna be a test case for any thing!
All excellent points, but I fear the courtroom is the attorney's fiefdom. There job is to paint you black hearted. Either way you go, the evil gun will be on trial. Bullets used are just something else to explore for them. The only thing I would suggest is to survive the encounter first, then worry about the court room. Old saying better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6. I certainly understand your apprehensions, but would carrying a mouse gun alleviate any of your concerns?
 
All excellent points, but I fear the courtroom is the attorney's fiefdom. There job is to paint you black hearted. Either way you go, the evil gun will be on trial. Bullets used are just something else to explore for them. The only thing I would suggest is to survive the encounter first, then worry about the court room. Old saying better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6. I certainly understand your apprehensions, but would carrying a mouse gun alleviate any of your concerns?

no, sorry the courtroom is unequivocally the prosecutor's and if your derriere has a public defender representing you cuz of the 'investigation' and the prosecutor's interpretation that investigation or it just happens to be an election year, JQPublic is screwed and they didn't even buy them dinner first!
 
no, sorry the courtroom is unequivocally the prosecutor's and if your derriere has a public defender representing you cuz of the 'investigation' and the prosecutor's interpretation that investigation or it just happens to be an election year, JQPublic is screwed and they didn't even buy them dinner first!
 
forgive the observation here, but you have just been involved in SD incident, you prevailed and the bad person is severely wounded, disabled, or deceased; therefore, (do not care where you live) you have committed a significant felony or worst case there is a minimum charge of homicide as you might be sitting in jail as the nice LEs are investigating your situation.

now the nice LE's are clearing up a few detail(s) and the discussion centers around the 'hot' rounds you reloaded yourself, nice LE ask if you can you explain, so can you please tell us in detail how your reload, assure your load isn't 'hot', ad nauseam.

bottom line, why put yourself through this dog and pony discussion, for the record, during an investigation where you are being judicially put through the wringer over your recollection of how you reload.

why on earth would you put yourself through this type of twenty questions scenario which can be used against you in court when all you would have to state to the nice LE's my SD handgun is loaded with exactly what my community's LE carry!

your tired derriere is stilling in jail, or out on $$$bond paying an $$$$$attorney to get you properly defended.

i'm personally not that wealthy or curious to see what it is like sitting in jail or going to court to defend myself cuz some silly prosecutor believe they can make a name from my using SD reload ammo as pre-meditation killing.

and if the ballistics of the reload is less than the ballistics of the .45 acp load the local minons carry ?
 
Leathality is a game played by mouth fighters, (Attorney's), in every instance. I would stipulate that the bullet has a function of stopping the action. I also have no problem recalling how I load, after thousands of rounds, it's etched in my mind. My practice round runs about 900 feet per second and is not a hollow point as is police issue. If the prosecutor is hinging his case on that, I would feel very safe. However, depending on circumstance, I doubt seriously I would be charged. Of course future elections could forward a D.A. that wants to try the gun. At which point in time I would be screaming for assistance from any NRA representative I could hook up with. And also at that time, ammunition would be a small side bar to the issue.
 
If you find yourself in front of a judge, Its most likely that you did not convince the local cops that you had the legal right to shoot someone!
What you shot them with won't even come up unless there was a serious problem with why you shot them!

I would like to see anyone come up with a court case that was based on what the shooter used! I have not found one yet! DR
 
If you find yourself in front of a judge, Its most likely that you did not convince the local cops that you had the legal right to shoot someone!

If I find myself in front of a judge, its most likely that my attorney did not convince the local cops that I had the legal right to shoot someone :)

I'm not anti-police at all, but there's way am I talking to the cops shortly after an altercation that resulted in me firing my gun.
 
If you find yourself in front of a judge, Its most likely that you did not convince the local cops that you had the legal right to shoot someone!
What you shot them with won't even come up unless there was a serious problem with why you shot them!

I would like to see anyone come up with a court case that was based on what the shooter used! I have not found one yet! DR
My point spot on. What I use to defend self and or family just does not stand up against letting myself and them be victimized. A matter of cross that bridge when we come to it. First survive, then if there still able, they can ask how I did it.
 
I am truly sorry to have failed to articulated the true nature of my point:

I do not use reloads because I do not wish to burden me or my legal team down with inconsequential trivial distractor(s) whatsoever!

law enforcement: what kind of ammo you have in that handgun.
me/legal team: same kind you carry in your service pistol!

no expensive ballistic tests to conduct or pay for; no further conversation on the subject as the subject is closed and my legal team can focus their effort(s) and work on discounting/rebuttal whatever the sheriff or prosecutor wish to put in front of the judicial system.
 
If your concern remains what happens after, then of course go the politically correct way and use common acceptable store bought ammo. As a matter of fact, local police approved ammo is what is in my concealed carry at this time. A good gold dot hollow point 165 grn .40 calib. Tried and true. I most refer to back in the day before lawyers removed all common sense and my primary carry was also duty pistol. .45 acp.
 
This horse has been beaten to the point to where it's just a pile of bones. If you use reloads, it will affect the forensic examination of the homicide scene. The question is if the homicide was justifiable or not. The CSI team would have to replicate your load in a lab and test it to collaborate your story. I either carry what my local LE agency carries or a major factory defensive/personal protection load. You're better off with Winchester Whitebox JHPs over reloads. You will end up getting more attorney and expert witness billable hours if you use reloads especially in a firearm or (self) defense unfriendly jurisdiction.

Reloads are great for practice, but not in the courtroom.
 
This horse has been beaten to the point to where it's just a pile of bones. If you use reloads, it will affect the forensic examination of the homicide scene. The question is if the homicide was justifiable or not. The CSI team would have to replicate your load in a lab and test it to collaborate your story. I either carry what my local LE agency carries or a major factory defensive/personal protection load. You're better off with Winchester Whitebox JHPs over reloads. You will end up getting more attorney and expert witness billable hours if you use reloads especially in a firearm or (self) defense unfriendly jurisdiction.

Reloads are great for practice, but not in the courtroom.
Depending on which gun I used, there are 500 to 1000 extras in storage at my home that I used the same load. But before the lawyers and CSI's even get to investigate, it would have to have been determined that I had done something wrong. No crime, no investigation. DR
 
Depending on which gun I used, there are 500 to 1000 extras in storage at my home that I used the same load. But before the lawyers and CSI's even get to investigate, it would have to have been determined that I had done something wrong. No crime, no investigation. DR

Google the Harold Fish case. One of the things the prosecution used against him is that he used a 10mm. It also depends on the jurisdiction. If you're in a right to die, be a victim and pay taxes (i.e. CA, MA, NJ or NY) expect caliber and factory ammo to come into the merits of the case. You're in CA, I wouldn't bet the farm on your statement.
 
Last Edited:

Upcoming Events

Crossroads of the West Gun Show
Las Vegas, NV

New Resource Reviews

Back Top