What SHTF Skills Do you have ?

[Ura-Ki]

I really enjoyed my time deploying with the S.F. guys, I learned a whole lot of new skills I never would have learned otherwise! To them, I was just a crazy guy with a radio, and a M-5 Trauma bag so I could apply bandaids and stitches, but it was a lot of fun and scary as hell, my kind of gig! What I took away from that experience was life changing, and on top of my normal crazy life, I now had all that to add to my bag of tricks! I thought what I did was crazy and dangerous as hell, those S.F. guys are nucking futz!
Any S.F. guys here? Bar tab is on me, lets get pizzed!

 

[Doug1943]

Unless we are all killed by some yet-unknown weapon, a post SHTF situation will see government of some sort being organized within a few weeks of the event, assuming it doesn't survive, even in a rudimentary state in its present form.

By 'government' I mean a group of men with guns, or who can command men with guns, who have a set of laws that everyone will have to obey. Whether they are democratically elected, or just the baddest brothers on the block, they will be there. In some areas they'll be the Bloods or the Crips or the local equivalent. They may use some sort of existing 'official' government as a screen -- think Sinaloa -- or they may be approximations of the way the original American Colonists governed themselves, taking the form of existing government.

A few people may want to hide out somewhere and not be part of this. Good luck to them! They must hope none of them gets appendicitis or an infection or any one of a thousand other things we have evolved civilization to cope with. They will be mimicking the way of life of the original Australian aboriginals, before the white man destroyed their culture with welfare, or of the Yamomami Indians in the Amazon today. If that's your desire, best of luck to you.

But everyone else should organize themselves to re-establish Constitutional, democratic government. Groups larger than a few dozen cannot hide, nor should they want to: cities and towns have infrastructure and resources which need not be abandoned to the mobs. And if there are marauding bands of savages moving about in search of loot -- think Rodney King riots -- then the organized citizens should pay attention first of all to their own armed defense. Which means organizing NOW in a local militia group. The closer their contacts with the existing military and police, the better. (Anyone under 36 who has not done their military service should enlist now in the National Guard. [ Army National Guard ] )

You can't beat organization. Not only does it allow you to concentrate forces when you need to, you can also take advantage of the division of labor -- we can't all be comms specialists, or combat medics, or people who can hit a target at a thousand meters, but a group of a couple of hundred ordinary Americans will either have such people, or can develop them.

And we don't all have to be in the rifle platoons. A real military has serious support elements, and here is where many women, and men , over the age where they can low-crawl under barbed wire with tracers zipping overhead, can be placed. (I say 'many' women, not 'all', because (1) the spirit of the times, and (2) there are women who can wield a firearm with deadly efficiency, as many Wehrmacht personnel found out on the Russian Front.)

These organizations should be formed now, where they have not already been. They should call themselves 'patriots' and be open to any American who fits that description. The Left will scream -- already is screaming -- about 'anti-government extremists' -- a sick joke, given that the Left hate the American government -- but if we're smart, we'll avoid doing and saying anything that could play into their hands. Such a group should project an image of being just what it is: a civilian Emergency Response Unit, reading and able to help out in any man-made or natural disaster (one of which may be the large-scale breakdown of political and social order, but that doesn't have to be emphasized).

For every member of such a group who will muster with a weapon, there ought to be several others in support roles. Not only does this make military sense, it make current-day political sense. The last thing a local militia wants to be is secretive and isolated from the community. On the contrary, it should work to build close links with all possible community institutions.

At the moment, the numbers in such groups are miniscule, compared to what they must be. If we take 'three percent' as a goal, then 3% of male patriots who are serious enough to vote -- about 25 million -- is 750 000 people. This means that current organized groups -- the "militias" -- must expand by two orders of magnitude.

Just being better at recruitment and retention could result in some growth -- doubling or tripling numbers perhaps. But growing by a factor of a hundred will require the impact of events on the consciousness of people who ought to be in such groups, but are not now. So we await the future.

 

[nvshooter]

I once wrote herein that I'd just wait a bit and be killed within minutes of the total societal collapse. I've changed my thinking: I'll fire-off as many rounds from any Black Rifle I happen to find laying around, and kill as many zombies as I can. When my ammo is exhausted, someone is sure to kill me triple-dead. After that, nothin' will much matter to me forevermore...

 

[Hook686]

True but they will need to find me first. I know that with my five closest allies I can hold down the fort so to speak for a long time. Keep in mind that these five allies are all trained. Others that I know who would be welcome have all been vetted ahead of time and I guarantee you they know who they are and me might fall but we will take more than our numbers before we do.

I hear you, and understand. 'They died with their boots on' was part of American history.

 

[Hook686]

You are probably correct Hook686. But large groups will definitely destroy the environment where they are located and will be hard to move to new diggs.
Decades ago I lost one of my Samoyeds in the White Mountains on a camping trip. Foxy could have been a blond, she got dingy and just started loping along and could cover a crap load of distance very quickly. We went to the rangers office in Alpine for assistance. Great group of people, they took me to a place where the RainBow group had gotten a permit for camping, something like 300 folks. The grass was trampled and the place was heading towards Woodstock type of destruction if it rained. After I got my dog back from these people and was heading back to my truck I asked the ranger how long would it take for the land to repair itself. He said 5-10 years. He told me that in two weeks that they were going to have to move them as their permit was going to expire. He did not care if they went somewhere else in the forest just that they did not stay there any longer.

When the SHTF comes I do see the advantage of a group, how ever small and mobile would be a better plan in my mind, think plains indian tribe/band.
They lived for decades on the plains and never really made a dent in the environment.
Unfortunately I am probably wrong and you are probably correct.

I don't think there is any, 'Right, or wrong'. There are only consequences. A lot I figure depends upon age and health/physical condition. Mobile has its advantages, as well as limitations. Stationary has its advantages, as well as limitations.

I Croatia civil war one of the civilians told of the struggles and how snipers were a real hazard and made day time a none doing anything. his family brothers sisters cousins etc.) gathered in one neighborhood. Blocked off streets at each end and had guards posted 24/7. They even dragged dead bodies to the wreaked vehicles creating the blockade. Activity was at night with teams going out to barter for goods and services. Booze, smokes, and bullets seemed the biggest trade goods. One guy refilled butane lighters for food. This guy was the one that offered the thought that the small band, or loner did not last long. You gotta sleep and you need guards 24/7. Mobility is a possible, but how much can you carry ?

There is no right answer I'm thinking.

 

[Hook686]

Ferfal tells of the economic collapse in Argentina and the gangs and hostilities that resulted. He advised having a Hummer and being prepared to go off road in a heartbeat. Different than civil war, it was the collapse of law and order in the country. It seems to me the two scenarios, while related in some ways, are also different in some ways. Looking at both helps.

 

[Doug1943]

The examples from the former Yugoslavia, and Argentina during the collapse, are probably the most relevant to the future American situation.

But ..... no one can predict the future. Too much depends on things we don't know about, and cannot know about: new technologies, for example, including biological technologies. No one predicted the world wide web. But it has had an enormous impact on events. No one can know what advances in genetic engineering are going to bring.

There are also possibilities 'below the surface' that require a certain combination of events and personalities to bring them forward.

The US overthrew a democratically-elected government in Iran in 1953 -- the man was annoying the British who got a lot of their income from Iran's oilfields and he wanted to nationalize them -- and put in a nice, stable, pro-US monarch, who didn't bother with elections. This prepared the ground for a revolution, which duly happened, and which was Islamist in nature, Iran then being a backward, religiously fundamentalist country. And it had a strong personality, Ayotollah Khomeini, as leader. This didn't have to be, it was a series of historical accidents.

Then the Russians invaded Afghanistan, to support the moderate radical nationalists there who had overthrown their own monarch -- funny how people don't like being ruled by arbitrary kings, look what we started! -- against more extreme ones, which set off an Islamist reaction, which we supported in every way possible, building up a strong, international, radical Islamist movement, which learned in Afghanistan how to fight a superpower, and, more importantly that you could defeat a superpower. So after finishing off the Russians, they turned on us.

Now we're living with the consequences of those events. They might have happened anyway, no matter what the Americans and Russians did. Both countries had great military power, and believed that this is basically all you need to shape events. A great delusion.

The point is, no one foresaw the rise of radical Islam.

And no one can foresee the effect of personalities in politics, and yet the character of political leaders plays a huge rold in events.

If Hitler had not been a reckless gambler -- and, like all leaders of militarily-powerful countries, over-confident in what his military could accomplish -- he would have halted after absorbing the Sudetenland and bringing Czechoslovakia within the German orbit. But he assumed the weak leadership of Britain and France would break their treaty with Poland. As it happened he was wrong. But Hitler's character was an accident of history.

So was Churchill's character. If that taxi that knocked Churchill over in New York City in the early 30's had been moving faster, or carrying a heavier load, Churchill may not have survived. Then it is quite probable that the British government would have come to a deal with Hitler in 1940, allowing him to dominate Europe so long as they kept the Empire. If that had happened, and if Hitler had been smart enough not to gratuitously declare war on the US when he didn't have to, he might have succeeded in his invasion of the Soviet Union. The Japanese would have finished off the British Empire and gobbled up as much of it as they could. It would have been a different world.

The lessons of all this? NO ONE CAN PREDICT THE FUTURE!

Having a few hundred thousand armed citizen-patriots, with some rudimentary training, surrounded by concentric circles of supporters -- some actively organized as logistics/supply/medical/engineering units, others just friends, radiating out to friendly neutrals... can't hurt.

I personally think the idea of 'guerilla war' in the US is an adolescent fantasy. Where non-state guerilla warriors have succeeded, without the active support of genuine states, it has been because they were fighting against an unpopular government. That's how the American-supported Batista and Somoza regimes were overthrown. But generally, guerillia war just results in the deaths of the guerillas if they're fighting an intact army which has the support, active or passive, of most of the population.

But no one knows the future, so it's best to be prepared, and to 'have it and not need it' rather than 'needing it and not having it'. An AR15 and a couple of thousand rounds of ammunition and a dozen magazines will cost less than a month's wages, and you can get together with your buddies and go shooting, so it's not just a passive investment. Everyone should do it.

Better yet, they should join an organized militia, where they have the chance, if they have no combat experience themselves, of learning about the realities of combat from vets -- the one good thing resulting from our futile attempts to bring liberal democracy to warring tribes abroad.

 

[Belevolk]

I know people in a militia, have known them for several decades. All started with the love of guns and employment taxes. They went off the deep end of the pond and decided that paying taxes was optional. Some went to jail. I only see them socially now. Last time was at a trade show and they were impressed that I was carrying. We talked, and caught up I might be able to join up, but they are fundamentally beyond my horizon and I have been very honest about that to them. I know one of them respects my position as I am god father to his wee ones.

I agree with Doug1943 that a guerilla war is a fantasy. I do not see small bands surviving very long against a organized large group. Especially in today's world of drones and cameras.

 

[Doug1943]

Yes ... the 'Posse Comitatus' was crazy. A lot of people got into trouble -- lost their farms -- because of following their insane ideas. Pay your taxes, get a driver's license, obey the law, organize democratically to change it if you don't like it.

But ... no one knows the future. A sober, sane, militia group. Not 'anti-government' on principle, open to all American patriots regardless of race, creed, or color, is a good idea.

I can understand the anti-government impulse. All you have to do is to read about Randy Weaver, a harmless eccentric with repulsive views but ones he was nto actively spreading, who refused to be a government informant and was entrapped on a phoney weapons charge -- whose wife and child were murdered -- yes, murdered -- by government agents -- all you have to do is to read about his case, to understand why some people might get over-emotional and go off the deep end.

More information about Randy Weaver here: Ruby Ridge - Wikipedia
Then you read about the Waco travesty ... and then about COINTELPRO (which was mainly directed at the Left, and the project of the paranoid J Edgar Hoover) ... and you can see that the 'militia movement' in the 1990s, and some of them today, aren't entirely making it up out of whole cloth.

Nonetheless, we need police and we need a national police force. They aren't going to be perfect, because government is never perfect, because people are not perfect.

So I'm glad that much of the national militia movement -- at least most of the people I have come in contact with -- are not beholden to crazy conspiracy theories or on an anti-government-in-principle kick, despite what the Southern Poverty Law Center says. They're a just-in-case movement, and my own reading of history tells me that they may be on to something.

If you're in Arizona, you might want to check out these groups: go to Arizona - Official Roll Call & Lounge and scroll down to the post by 'Shammer'. I think he lists all or most of the Arizona militia groups.

 

[Capn Jack]

Too little to fight, too old and fat to run, But i'm still a good shot and I've got plenty of ammo.

 

[Doug1943]

Put a dozen or so people like you (and me) on the right rooftop, with rifles, and you've got 360 coverage of approaches to a building where people are taking refuge or a medical point is situated or supplies are stored. Give four of us binoculars, one of us a radio or two or three, (short and long-distance), a toilet, [porta-potty (improvised) if need be]. Give us four night-vision scopes, and/or some million candlepower 'flashlights' -- why not reclaimed car headlights plus batteries? -- plus another half dozen or so people so we can organize watch-and-watch to let people get some sleep in between sentry duty ... some bedding and tarps ... a camp stove ... a few kilos of MREs or the equivalent ... some five-gallon cans of water -- maybe a spotter drone operating team -- you've got Headquarters Company. Let the youngsters be the grunts.

 

[badbob85037]

What can you do that would set you apart from others? Obviously something like "type 100 words per minute" isn't a real necessity, while someone that knows advanced medicine would be very valuable.

In the military I was a radio operator. A little rusty but. I built homes and commercial buildings for 25 years. Maybe they wouldn't kick me out of a post apocalyptic community.

 

[Capn Jack]

When I asked one of my LE friends what brand/type of ammunition his department carried. He told me they carried whatever was on sale that month.

* Sorry, got in the wrong post.

 

[americanwolfma]

Not the longest list of skills but here goes,

USPSA Grandmaster shooter, Alumni at Gunsite, Frontsite, Suarezinternational, Caswells
Boyscout
dabbled in Gunsmithing, Work on Glocks and 1911's
Proficient in short term survival skills

Been married for 28years, so maybe that counts for something, and raised 3 awesome kids

 

[DunRanull]

Put a dozen or so people like you (and me) on the right rooftop, with rifles, and you've got 360 coverage of approaches to a building where people are taking refuge or a medical point is situated or supplies are stored. Give four of us binoculars, one of us a radio or two or three, (short and long-distance), a toilet, [porta-potty (improvised) if need be]. Give us four night-vision scopes, and/or some million candlepower 'flashlights' -- why not reclaimed car headlights plus batteries? -- plus another half dozen or so people so we can organize watch-and-watch to let people get some sleep in between sentry duty ... some bedding and tarps ... a camp stove ... a few kilos of MREs or the equivalent ... some five-gallon cans of water -- maybe a spotter drone operating team -- you've got Headquarters Company. Let the youngsters be the grunts.

I especially like the idea of spotter drones... those could in a sense be "force multipliers" at least until the zombies wise up and start taking them down... Heaven forfend that we ever have to survive such times as that...
"Citizen-Patriot" can mean different things to different people, or be applied to a wide variety of people and beliefs... I am sure that many leftist/libs think of their kind as being citizens and "patriotic" and their thinking does not include supporters of the social order.

 

[Belevolk]

I know what I would do if a drone came near me in that situation. Unfortunately it would be time to move after downing the eye in the sky.

 

[Hook686]

Sadly I am currently a disabled old man. It happens to all, if you are lucky enough to survive long enough. Best I can hope for these days is to, 'Die with my boots on', when the SHTF.

 

[Belevolk]

I am also in the disabled catagory. I am hoping for the goodness of the people I run into. And the fact I have some toys that I would be willing to share if they keep me around to teach the young. Just have to keep the toys under wraps until they can see the need of the eldery

 

[DunRanull]

Yes ... the 'Posse Comitatus' was crazy. A lot of people got into trouble -- lost their farms -- because of following their insane ideas. Pay your taxes, get a driver's license, obey the law, organize democratically to change it if you don't like it.

But ... no one knows the future. A sober, sane, militia group. Not 'anti-government' on principle, open to all American patriots regardless of race, creed, or color, is a good idea.

I can understand the anti-government impulse. All you have to do is to read about Randy Weaver, a harmless eccentric with repulsive views but ones he was nto actively spreading, who refused to be a government informant and was entrapped on a phoney weapons charge -- whose wife and child were murdered -- yes, murdered -- by government agents -- all you have to do is to read about his case, to understand why some people might get over-emotional and go off the deep end.

More information about Randy Weaver here: Ruby Ridge - Wikipedia
Then you read about the Waco travesty ... and then about COINTELPRO (which was mainly directed at the Left, and the project of the paranoid J Edgar Hoover) ... and you can see that the 'militia movement' in the 1990s, and some of them today, aren't entirely making it up out of whole cloth.

Nonetheless, we need police and we need a national police force. They aren't going to be perfect, because government is never perfect, because people are not perfect.

So I'm glad that much of the national militia movement -- at least most of the people I have come in contact with -- are not beholden to crazy conspiracy theories or on an anti-government-in-principle kick, despite what the Southern Poverty Law Center says. They're a just-in-case movement, and my own reading of history tells me that they may be on to something.

If you're in Arizona, you might want to check out these groups: go to Arizona - Official Roll Call & Lounge and scroll down to the post by 'Shammer'. I think he lists all or most of the Arizona militia groups.

The MURDERER of Vicki and Infant Weaver, was Lon Tomohisa Horiuchi, who was allowed to skate and was never brought to justice.

 

[DunRanull]

Sadly I am currently a disabled old man. It happens to all, if you are lucky enough to survive long enough. Best I can hope for these days is to, 'Die with my boots on', when the SHTF.

I hear ya loud and clear. These days I creak and groan just walking to the can... No illusions about a "fire-fight" lasting more than 2-3 rounds, and anyway it goes against my grain and training to fire on L.E.....
As far as my "skills" go, I can, (or could), hunt, shoot and garden and could teach some of same to others. Can even cook and sew!
God help us all if it comes to that!!