Selling on Armslist question??

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by mike56, May 28, 2018.

  1. mike56

    mike56
    Prescott Valley, AZ
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    Put a shotgun on. They warn that offers to send checks are a sign of a scam.

    I have 2 offers to buy and ship. Not alot of questions about the gun itself, which is suspicious to me.
    Both sent valid (on face) FFl's via email.

    Now I will ship it through a FFL here, to theirs. Both are ok with me waiting until payment clears before I ship.

    Am I missing something? What's the risk to me?
     
  2. targetshooter

    targetshooter
    So. AZ
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    Biggest would be fake FFL, and bad checks. You seem to have covered yourself. Be sure you wait for the funds to clearly transfer into your account, and you or your FFL contact and or otherwise that the FFL is legit.
     
  3. mike56

    mike56
    Prescott Valley, AZ
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    Thinking that if bill jones send me a check, and I ship to his ffl "to bill jones" , then his ffl transfers it to someone else (straw sale), its on him?
     
  4. Alexx1401

    Alexx1401
    Pierce County WA
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    Safe way? You should be able to look up the FFL with BATF and see that it is legit. Payment? Be VERY careful. Often the scam is the checks are run through a nest of banks. Some times 10 days later your bank "thinks" all is fine and all of a sudden it comes back stolen or fake. Then they take the money from you. Postal Money Order, take it and cash it at a post office. Then ship the gun.
     
  5. Ridgeback

    Ridgeback
    Sonoran Desert
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    Have them pay with a USPS Money Order.
    Then you walk up to the counter at the post office and cash it.
    Then take the gun to your FFL and have him ship it.
    Your FFL will be able to find out if the FFL they sent you is legit or not.
    Another thing I do is get a phone number and talk to them in person. You can tell a lot by a phone call.
    I have done this quite a few times and have never had a problem.
     
    billdeserthill and Alexx1401 like this.
  6. AZgunGuy

    AZgunGuy
    Arizona
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    PayPal is extremely easy to set up, can done with no fee if done as "friends and family" and it's instantaneous. Then ship via FFL as everyone else has stated. There are multitudes of easy instant pay transfers avail to us and the seller primarily dictates the terms of the sale so whatever you say goes. Hopefully, since this is a smaller community and hasn't reached the status of BP I would love to think that your chances of it being legit is greater then a scam.
     
  7. mike56

    mike56
    Prescott Valley, AZ
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    Not so sure about "instantaneous".
    I sold some car parts on ebay, using paypal. It took 2 weeks before I was able to touch that money.
     
  8. AZgunGuy

    AZgunGuy
    Arizona
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    if done via "send money to friends and family" the longest wait is if they dont use a bank acct and use an e-check then it takes 3-5 days. Different then using paypal "service or goods" I do it all the time. As long as they choose bank acct or card as soon as they hit send i get an email within seconds
     
  9. Alexx1401

    Alexx1401
    Pierce County WA
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    Be careful with PayPal. The "problem" on the receiving end is how you are getting the money from them, PayPal. If you want them to put the money in your account that means you have to give them, PayPal, access to your account. Most do not read all those terms before agreeing to this. By giving them access to your account to put money in,you are also agreeing to let them take it out. They do not allow their service to be used for certain things like firearms. If the party on the other end then files a dispute, tells them this is what it was for, you have given PayPal the authorization to take money back from you. If someone wants to do this I would set up a second account to use. Take that money out of there leaving only enough to keep it open before sending that gun. PayPal is not a bank so they are not covered under the same rules and things can and do get strange. Most never read all the terms until after something happens, then it's a little late. The safest way to do this is Postal Money order you, the seller, cash at a local Post Office. Then send the gun after you have cash in hand.
     
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  10. AZgunGuy

    AZgunGuy
    Arizona
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    Yes I agree 100%, that's why I stated to use "Friends and Family" It's not a purchase of goods and is not backed by the paypal "buyer protection"

    Unless this has changed which it very well couldv'e but this is the reason I've always used this option.

    Payments sent through the Friends and Family option are not eligible for Buyer Protection at this time.
    If you are paying for an item, goods, or service, we strongly recommend against marking it as Friends and Family.
     
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  11. Alexx1401

    Alexx1401
    Pierce County WA
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    I have a PP account that I have had since their inception, just never use it unless I am buying on Ebay and the seller takes no other means. I long ago took the bank account away from them. Only kept it when I was also selling stuff. Even then I used a separate account that was only for them for just this reason. Only use a credit card now. I have never used the friends and family thing so never bothered to read the terms. So does the person who is receiving the money get a check from PayPal? If so and you can cash it that would be probably great. I would still make damn sure the check cleared. What concerns me is does the person getting the money need to let PayPal put the money directly in your account? If so did you read the pages of stuff you agreed to? Almost no one actually reads that crap. This is what would worry me. In that pages of stuff are you giving them access to the account both ways? I don't know, so if the receiver does have to give PP access to an account to get the money, and they have read the pages of terms, and it does not let PP get access to that account other that deposit money that would be great. I just don't know and would NOT just assume they can't after giving them the access to the account. If you are giving them access to your account to receive money, I would either set up another account, and or actually read all those terms first.
     
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  12. Ridgeback

    Ridgeback
    Sonoran Desert
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    That's not true.
    When you let someone put money in your account all you give them is your email address that is connected to paypal.
    In order for them to take money out they would also need your password.
     
    billdeserthill likes this.
  13. AZgunGuy

    AZgunGuy
    Arizona
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    yeah like everything there is always a risk, not saying PP is the best option but an option in general. I personally have never had an issue and they keep it in your paypal acct until you choose to move it to an acct. That being said I never like anyone having access to my acct but me haha, What makes my situation a little different is I have a merchant acct with a paypal debit card so I can withdraw directly from paypal or pay with my paypal card.
    So as far as the "friends and family" goes....no you still get the money in the same way as "goods and services" but PP has this option to send money between people without a service charge but no backing of buyer protection. Buyer protection is their way of enticing you to use the goods and services. It's just like setting up direct deposit with work. Tech you sign that you give them access to pull money as well as deposit money but it doesnt happen unless you owe them. Setting up a separate acct makes great sense especially if you use "goods and services" or a merchant acct. With friends and family the only issue I've ever had is if their e-check bounces you get a notification that the money did not go through but most people dont use PP with an e-check and in that case you wait until the money has cleared. There are many other service like Venmo and even Facebook allows you to send money between people now.
     
  14. TacticalAnt

    TacticalAnt
    Taos NM
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    I asume you posted it here first? There is also option of using gunbroker.com, but unless your shotgun is special, the market there may be pretty flooded. +1 on USPS money order. Seems to be the safest way. With Paypal, they could always contend the deal and paypal seems to always side with buyer, not seller.
     
  15. Chopins11th

    Chopins11th
    Phoenix, AZ
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    Checks can turn NSF even well after clearing the bank. Without going into detail (I'm driving) you can even withdraw said monies from the check deposit once cleared and can be recalled (you now owe your bank the NSF plus fees) Statutes vary from bank to bank and I've forgotten what the Federal Trade Commission and Banking Commission's time limit on people or businesses stopping payment or becoming a Non Sufficient Fund due to numerous reasons/tricks like pulling their funds out after your bank says the check is good and hence their bank does not make the

    Checks can turn NSF on you much much later than most people know. Each bank has a different statute of limitation set and though I've forgotten the Fed side, the Federal Trade Commission and Banking Commission have the official statutes.

    Your bank can show that it has cleared and it can still turn into an NSF days later. You may even (in most cases I hate to say) be able to withdraw said monies of the check that has posted as good and then end up OWING your bank the amount of the check turned NSF plus any fees associated on both sides (meaning the original institution and your bank).
    There are many ways people trick honest people by stating they can wait until the check clears the bank (most of which will want an immediate sending of said item as soon as it clears though in order to beat the clock). They can often still pull the funds from their own bank after your bank posts the funds and they also are able to put stop payments at times.

    (Sorry, NSF stands for NON-SUFFICIENT FUNDS if you didn't know the acronym). Been in the collection business most my life and finally owned a comercial debt recovery firm by 2003 which may not be the same as a retail debt as it is all open accounts from corp to corp but the checks still flow the same way, or even worse in commercial banking at times.

    With all the secure applications nowdays there are just too many ways to guarantee payment to your account immediately. This person or person(s) can literally use the information from their check face up and use a program like "ZELLE" which takes a person's checking or account info as they sign up and the receiver does the same, providing their banking info to ZELLE and the buyer gets debited like he/she used a debit card instead of a check. In other words, it is instant and non-reversible.

    I just starting using ZELLE and have paid and received monies from friends and family several times. Once they're in the database and in your phone (With their names only showing) you simply pick the dollar amount, select send or recieve and tap the name it's going to or coming from and it's DONE. You can withdraw that money if you were standing at a teller machine and your account was previously with 1 dollar in it. In other words, it's not your bank covering you...UNTIL so to speak. It's the actual CLEARED funds. If a person has trouble with paying via something different than a check for something like you're selling, it's SELLER BEWARE, not buyer.
    Good Luck!
     
  16. mike56

    mike56
    Prescott Valley, AZ
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    Thanks for the bad news(kidding).

    Then what is the "safe" time frame for the deal? 2-3 weeks?
     
  17. Chopins11th

    Chopins11th
    Phoenix, AZ
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    Your bank will tell you and they will stand behind their answer. I don't think it will be anywhere near that long. Maybe 2-3 days after posting. Or they may have a policy that once cleared, it is good (as they may secure funds before posting as valid and irreversible
     

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