National Are you an unlicensed FFL?

[ynotAZ]

In 30 days you may be an unlicensed FFL and subject to penalties.

The new ATF rule

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[Sunky Heribeck]

Just another ATF rule to be shot down.

No way to enforce it without a national registry.

 

[ynotAZ]

But that's the obvious goal. The question will be:

"your gun was manufactured after May, 2024, we have no record of you buying it legally, how did you illegally acquire it?"

 

[Sunky Heribeck]

The way I read it, this "rule" does not prohibit sales between individuals, nor does does it require those sales to be subject to a NICS check.

It is basically a law that is already active. If you are in the business of selling guns, you must obtain a Federal Firearms License and abide by all the rules for every sale.

Buyer does not need to provide where they acquired the firearm. Just like now.

 

[ynotAZ]

It isn't a new law it is an expanded the definition of engaging in the business of firearms dealing. Their example of the rule goes down to 1 gun. Feel free to comment all you want but read the rule.

This is no different than bump stocks. They did not write a law, the law was written in 1934, "already active" but they expanded the definition of what a machinegun is. They did the same with Forced reset triggers.

If you have the money and time to challenge this definition, be my guest, but my opinion, it is better for others to take the time to watch the video, that goes through the rule page by page, learn, and put pressure on their representatives, rather than sit back and say "It is basically a law that is already active".

 

[Sunky Heribeck]

Agreed but never said I was sitting back.

 

[Sunky Heribeck]

Some verbiage from the rule:

"The final rule expressly recognizes that individuals who purchase firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or a legitimate hobby are permitted by the GCA to occasionally buy and sell firearms for those purposes, or occasionally resell to a licensee or to a family member for lawful purposes, without the need to obtain a license. It also makes clear that persons may liquidate all or part of a personal collection, liquidate firearms that are inherited, or liquidate pursuant to a court order, without the need to obtain a license."

 

[Sunky Heribeck]

A bit more:

"§ 478.13 Definition of "engaged in the business as a dealer in firearms other than a gunsmith or a pawnbroker."
(a)
Definition. A person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business to predominantly earn a profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms. The term shall not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of the person's personal collection of firearms. In addition, the term shall not include an auctioneer who provides only auction services on commission to assist in liquidating firearms at an estate-type auction; provided, that the auctioneer does not purchase the firearms, or take possession of the firearms for sale on consignment.
(b)
Fact-specific inquiry. Whether a person is engaged in the business as a dealer under paragraph (a) of this section is a fact-specific inquiry. Selling large numbers of firearms or engaging or offering to engage in frequent transactions may be highly indicative of business activity. However, there is no minimum threshold number of firearms purchased or sold that triggers the licensing requirement. Similarly, there is no minimum number of transactions that determines whether a person is "engaged in the business" of dealing in firearms. For example, even a single firearm transaction or offer to engage in a transaction, when combined with other evidence (e.g., where a person represents to others a willingness and ability to purchase more firearms for resale), may require a license; whereas, a single isolated firearm transaction without such evidence would not require a license. At all times, the determination of whether a person is engaged in the business of dealing in firearms is based on the totality of the circumstances."

 

[ynotAZ]

That is only a portion there is a lot more. Watch the video with a total explanation and ATF examples.

 

[Sunky Heribeck]

I watched the video, downloaded and read the 466 page rule. I am aware but not alarmed.

 

[ynotAZ]

Not being alarmed is your prerogative, dissing the fact that the rule so others ignore it makes very little sense. Al Capone didn't think twice about income taxes and General Flynn, wasn't concerned when questioned by the FBI.

Ignoring the fact that the ATF is writing law makes even less sense.

 

[Sunky Heribeck]

Voiced my opinion.
Don't recall telling others to ignore it.

 

[andrew]

In 30 days you may be an unlicensed FFL and subject to penalties.

The new ATF rule

Thank you

 

[ynotAZ]

As more information/analysis becomes available, I will post links.

 

[Sunky Heribeck]

https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/docs/ruling/atf-final-rule-definition-engaged-business-dealer-firearms/download

 

[nvshooter]

A late friend of mine needed some cash in a hurry, so he sold a number of guns sufficient to have some federal diarrhea-drinkers come to his place and ask him a bunch of questions. He told me the feds believed he was selling too many guns too quickly-- that he was bordering on being a dealer, and they were there to get the whole story. Alan eventually sold everything he had, to include a huge 454 Casull revolver that I would have bought just because its size would make liberals soil their pan'nies when they'd see it. It was stainless, so it was really gorgeous...

 

[ynotAZ]

I hope he doesn't need more money 30 days from now.

 

[Sunky Heribeck]

I suggest reading the rule for oneself and forming your own opinion. Instead of watching someone else's dramatic interpretation, who gets paid by YouTube, per subscriber and "likes".

https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/docs/ruling/atf-final-rule-definition-engaged-business-dealer-firearms/download

 

[ynotAZ]

Yes, read the rule and listen to some of the analysts online who have Esq after their names, unless someone here has a law degree and experience. I don't trust these people in the least, especially considering their AR15-lower debacle, GSG-SD debacle, bump stocks, and forced reset trigger "rules".

The part of this new rule that specifically made me feel it is another ATF turd is:

"(2) Presumptions that a person has intent to predominantly earn a profit. In civil and administrative proceedings, a person shall be presumed to have the intent to predominantly earn a profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms as defined in paragraph (d)(1) of this section, absent reliable evidence to the contrary, when it is shown that the person."

So, they can "presume" that you have "intent" to "predominantly", and you are guilty until you can prove otherwise. Guilty until proven innocent. And prepare to sell your vehicles, mortgage your home, and maybe sell an organ or two for the cost of defending yourself, until you plead to a lesser charge in federal court.

 

[Sunky Heribeck]

I don't trust these DC crack-heads either but as I said before, read the ENTIRE document and decide for yourself what it means to you.

BTW, Attorneys get paid to make videos also.