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Sell firearm to someone with out of state drivers license??

  • Yes.

    Votes: 3 6.8%
  • Maybe - depends on the person.

    Votes: 5 11.4%
  • No.

    Votes: 22 50.0%
  • Not a snowball's chance in Hades.

    Votes: 14 31.8%

  • Total voters
    44
It depends on your State laws. If it is not against the state law for person to person it's likely OK. Up to you to check and it can be found out by a FFL Dealer in your State. Remember if you sell to anyone, the responsibility you will wear if the firearm is used in a crime and bought through a FFL Dealer, you are still the owner.
I see that he is from California, so by buying from you, has broken their laws that are so restrictive that many manufactures have left, and those who are not in that State won't deal with them. Handguns even have a separate section of laws. Used guns are listed, those on the list supposed to have been tested, if they are not on the list then they can't be sold. All firearms must be FFL tranfered or sold, as is ammo through an FFL. All requires background checks. Even if legal, I would find out your State laws and deal with that. All out of state sales FFL to FFL buyer pick up costs.
 
Thanks, I agree that I would not sell to any one raising red flags but thanks for making it clear
The old saying 'the law is the law' couldn't of been talking about America. The Dick Act passed in I think 1913 defined the military as Regular troops, the National Guard, and the militia. The militia is every man 18 to 47. They are to have a modern military firearm in their home with enough rounds to last through a major battle. The president can call up the militia. If you fail to show up you will be tried in a military court. How can half the country obey this law when some couldn't bring an Airsoft. Not only are the over 2,000 gun laws a violation of our rights but the one writing these laws and the ones voting for them have violated their oath and none had any honor to begin with. Their anti Second Amendment laws have weakened the largest group of people to defend our nation. That is treason of the highest order. We are within our rights and our duty to push, pull or drag these traitors from office. Then set up civilian's courts to give justice. It would be reasonable to advise their bodies be left to rot from the trees as a strong warning to any democRat wanting to take his place.

What I see is a country needing a good genocide . Anyone hearing the boos coming from the wastes of good dirt in San Francisco when one of the many democRat hopefuls said we don't need socialism should be in agreement. If these bubblegum clowns want Socialism lets deport them all 300 miles west of San Francisco allowing them to only take with them their chains and lead weights or convince the people of the Soviet Socialist Republic of Kalifornia to all jump up and down at the same time. Cause God put that fault line there for a reason. Face it, these democRats are even to stupid to know they will never be ignorant. They are no longer the other party. They are the biggest threat ever seen against America. Exterminate democRats today if your kids deserve the same freedoms we grew up with
Oh please, Do you actually think liberals do not own guns? Im a gun toting liberals grannie. GOP are not tje only patriots.
 
I see that he is from California, so by buying from you, has broken their laws that are so restrictive that many manufactures have left, and those who are not in that State won't deal with them. Handguns even have a separate section of laws. Used guns are listed, those on the list supposed to have been tested, if they are not on the list then they can't be sold. All firearms must be FFL tranfered or sold, as is ammo through an FFL. All requires background checks. Even if legal, I would find out your State laws and deal with that. All out of state sales FFL to FFL buyer pick up costs.

Far as I know he spends 6 months a year living in AZ, which makes him a legal resident but doesn't wanna change out his license--why must you make everything bad?
 
Thanks, I agree that I would not sell to any one raising red flags but thanks for making it clear

Oh please, Do you actually think liberals do not own guns? Im a gun toting liberals grannie. GOP are not tje only patriots.
Under the Dick Act, falling under it is an Organized Militia. Any other than this type is Unorganized. They can be of armed or unarmed on top of that, so when you say Militia it encompasses a number of different types but is commonly stuck under a single for some reason. I'm am not sure how many Militias formed under States are still in the active status, but think Reserve to the Active National State Guards units, and like the Guard units are under each State Governor. Texas has one, not sure about California. Oregon had one. it was never Armed and members were former military. I think there are about a dozen or so. Their main purpose was the use of State emergencies such as flood, fire, earthquakes, Tsunami, or any declared emergency by the Governor. No deployment out of country by mutual aid with in the region was possible. Communications trained, Liaison between countyEOC, stateEOC, and Army JOC, all had their own HAM radios, licenses, orders with everything to operate, FEMA, ICS trained at very high levels. Bi Annual Three day a year field training and monthly unit meetings at the nearest armory to your residence. All was out of pocket until activated. Oregon was placed on stand down by the powers to be in the fall of 2015. Assuming the Governor, it was to be reorganized and restarted. Never happen. I never bothered to see if the web site still remains. Oregon State Defense Force. Strange things have occurred since. I have noticed that the Logo for the Oregon Emergency Services has on it's banner, Dept of the Army??? That's new, and event of that BIG quake of 9.0 or better, the State EOC will be in Bend Oregon where I just can't recall any great assets and is more or less not as convenient for anything. High desert, I wonder even if it is even great for communications as nearby areas are cell phone dead? I doubt if more that a few will be included in those types of answers. It also seems as many area of the country have become Super majority, and Democratic led, there are some things where I question sanity. Armed and UnOrganized Militias of which the government keeps intel on and classified as a threat like it or not Oath Keepers, III%, and a few smaller ones. I think it's just a matter of they don't like what is unknown, so they label the unknown. They used do the same with all motorcycle groups until they found out all were not the same. All that wasted energy. My personal thought is we have to get stupid/demented who have used our system far to long for personal gain. Term limits with options not to allow quasi lawyers to alter or change any of our basic laws. We have two pairs of Presidents and wives who have lost their law licenses due to lying and deceit. Maybe it should be not eligable to run for President? I can't see a forward movement without a total clean up on Democratic side. I'm thinking it isn't needed but a brief visit that Republican may or may not need attention. Without this cleaning, there will always be a suspecion. There isn't anyway that proven misdoing is accidental. By the way that isn't an automatic residency the six month clause. If he has Calif plates on his car, and claim yours because it's cheaper, and puts Ariz on and leaves them on for his half year in Calif. His neighbor turns him in gets a reward. The guy gets (used to be $1000)fined and buys Calif plates again. For the most part states do not recognize dual residents. They used to hit you for the state you worked in, so now reside and all kinds of proof of. He would still have to be legal I think now register the pistol in California? If you did FFL to FFL, it's all on him.
 
Just for an example if the "Buyer" has an Arizona ID Card but not an Arizona Drivers license it's a legal sale.

The Brady Law prohibits out of State sales. You made the right choice.
I live in Portland and Tucson and plan to shoot in both places. I got an Arizona ID without any trouble though the AZ license lady said if i had an Arizona license and got an ID in another state, it would be a problem. I don't know for sure if she's correct. Oregon hasn't complained about it so for my case it worked out.

You made the right choice BTW
 
Yes, So i dont need a buyers ID or i can need to send people my ID if i am gonna buy from them.
Not exactly. It works like this.

Using two FFLs, the seller ships through their FFL to the Buyer's FFL in the same state as the buyer and logs the buyer's ID and runs the background check.

When both the buyer and the seller have same state IDs, one FFL can log the transfer keeping the seller and buyer legal

If I didn't have an Arizona ID, when I wanted to purchase a firearm, the seller would have to ship to a FFL in the state my ID is from and I would have to go there, pay the fee, and pick up the firearm.
 
I have someone interested in my Rock Island 1911. He is coming to look at it this afternoon. He gave me his information for the bill of sale, but he has a California drivers license. Does anyone see a problem selling to him?? He does live in Phoenix - probably has not taken the time to get an Arizona license yet. Has anyone sold to anyone with an out of state license?? The exact pistol I am selling does not appear on the California 'approved' firearm list (how ignorant is the leadership in that state??). Just looking for some input on what you think. Let me know. Thanks.
I have someone interested in my Rock Island 1911. He is coming to look at it this afternoon. He gave me his information for the bill of sale, but he has a California drivers license. Does anyone see a problem selling to him?? He does live in Phoenix - probably has not taken the time to get an Arizona license yet. Has anyone sold to anyone with an out of state license?? The exact pistol I am selling does not appear on the California 'approved' firearm list (how ignorant is the leadership in that state??). Just looking for some input on what you think. Let me know. Thanks.
I know this is an older post but I would just add, there are many anti-gun groups out there trying to prove a point. Best to just pass, business address could have been a group like Giffords Law Center. We do not need to give the gun grabbers any ammunition. He could not even buy it if you sent it to an FFL in California.
 
This is not the first time that I have encountered this problem on both sides of the continent.

I passed on the sale, both times.

Interestingly, per ADOT, he may qualify as a resident. I suppose the real question is: do you need the money that bad to investigate and verify all this info ? I am not a lawyer. And there does seem to be conflict between state and federal definitions of 'residency.' IE...'physically present with intentions of making a home...' vs being able to produce a deed, mortgage, lease, etc to obtain a state ID.

ADOT:

New Resident Link ->
 
I wouldn't. If the prospective buyer cannot present a valid license for the State in which he owns property or has a vehicle registered, it's a gray area that only you have the incumbency to make clear. The governments of the two States may have differing sentiments. But what if you can't get to some sort of database that would clearly define for you who's who and what's what? You may commit a crime and not even know it. Best to err on the side of prudence...
 
What all you suggest sounds like more work than an FFL goes through--I'm not an officer of the law and I didn't agree to do the state's checking for them. If I want to sell a gun, I'm going to sell a gun--& when I do there won't be any log book or bill of sale or records made of the buyers drivers license or ccw #-- And I will continue to flag every post I see on Armslist that suggests a private sale is going to need to have a background check done

Flagging a post simply because you disagree with it is highly unfair and a gross abuse of the system Sir.

Keep in mind please that I agree with much of what your saying, however you can't just sell to whomever you want under the law. Buyer of ANY firearm MUST be a resident of your own state and sale must occur IN that state (private transfer). Also be advised it's perfectly legal to be a resident of more than one state but you can only hold a DL from one. You may have state issued IDs from as many as you like provided your a legitimate resident. Contrary to popular belief, their is no "Hour Glass" on AZ residency. From the moment your issued a legitimate AZ state ID your are a resident entitled to all privileges and responsibilities thereof.

The law requires a seller to exercise "Reasonable Discretion", whatever the hell that means, but if you sell to someone whose not a resident or is KNOWN to you to be a prohibited possessor or having unlawful intent, I assure you it will be YOUR bubblegum!

Whenever I buy or sell privately I ALWAYS collect all ID info, (along w/gun info & date) thereby exceeding my responsibility to the law. This demonstrates I'm a well intentioned, responsible person who went above and beyond what's required of him. Think about those implications for a few moments. "Officer, I sold it to this guy on that date. Here's ALL of his data. Go talk to him. I had no reason to suspect anything was wrong. Even so, I'm ALWAYS extra careful. Law says I don't have to be this careful, I do it anyway".

For a number of reasons, it might not be the greatest idea to record how much you sold it for. Is that really anyone's business? Your not operating any kind of gun business are you? If so, you absolutely NEED an FFL! If your engaging in the practice of buying & selling guns for profit & livelihood your probably going to prison eventually, and you know what, YOU BELONG THERE!
 
Flagging a post simply because you disagree with it is highly unfair and a gross abuse of the system Sir.

Keep in mind please that I agree with much of what your saying, however you can't just sell to whomever you want under the law. Buyer of ANY firearm MUST be a resident of your own state and sale must occur IN that state (private transfer). Also be advised it's perfectly legal to be a resident of more than one state but you can only hold a DL from one. You may have state issued IDs from as many as you like provided your a legitimate resident. Contrary to popular belief, their is no "Hour Glass" on AZ residency. From the moment your issued a legitimate AZ state ID your are a resident entitled to all privileges and responsibilities thereof.

The law requires a seller to exercise "Reasonable Discretion", whatever the hell that means, but if you sell to someone whose not a resident or is KNOWN to you to be a prohibited possessor or having unlawful intent, I assure you it will be YOUR bubblegum!

Whenever I buy or sell privately I ALWAYS collect all ID info, (along w/gun info & date) thereby exceeding my responsibility to the law. This demonstrates I'm a well intentioned, responsible person who went above and beyond what's required of him. Think about those implications for a few moments. "Officer, I sold it to this guy on that date. Here's ALL of his data. Go talk to him. I had no reason to suspect anything was wrong. Even so, I'm ALWAYS extra careful. Law says I don't have to be this careful, I do it anyway".

For a number of reasons, it might not be the greatest idea to record how much you sold it for. Is that really anyone's business? Your not operating any kind of gun business are you? If so, you absolutely NEED an FFL! If your engaging in the practice of buying & selling guns for profit & livelihood your probably going to prison eventually, and you know what, YOU BELONG THERE!
Understand care in the law, but the laws are meaningless! I remember having a 1911A1 sent to my Calif. door for $20 and no background. The last bunch was damn near $1000 with I think 3 backgrounds if you lived there, and any hick ups, and who knows where the money and pistol ended up at? Still the same person, but the hell with those who want to stop our second amendment rights. If you are not by law not able to own a firearm, then any and all should be allowed to be able to buy a firearm. I bought my first .22 brand new at a downtown pawn shop at age 15, almost 16. No questions asked for $20. As it should be, and did not have a drivers license for almost two years later. Why does that have to be a identifier for anyone? So served in the Marines at 17, and so far at 80, still remain a free man and not a slave!
 
Flagging a post simply because you disagree with it is highly unfair and a gross abuse of the system Sir.

Keep in mind please that I agree with much of what your saying, however you can't just sell to whomever you want under the law. Buyer of ANY firearm MUST be a resident of your own state and sale must occur IN that state (private transfer). Also be advised it's perfectly legal to be a resident of more than one state but you can only hold a DL from one. You may have state issued IDs from as many as you like provided your a legitimate resident. Contrary to popular belief, their is no "Hour Glass" on AZ residency. From the moment your issued a legitimate AZ state ID your are a resident entitled to all privileges and responsibilities thereof.

The law requires a seller to exercise "Reasonable Discretion", whatever the hell that means, but if you sell to someone whose not a resident or is KNOWN to you to be a prohibited possessor or having unlawful intent, I assure you it will be YOUR bubblegum!

Whenever I buy or sell privately I ALWAYS collect all ID info, (along w/gun info & date) thereby exceeding my responsibility to the law. This demonstrates I'm a well intentioned, responsible person who went above and beyond what's required of him. Think about those implications for a few moments. "Officer, I sold it to this guy on that date. Here's ALL of his data. Go talk to him. I had no reason to suspect anything was wrong. Even so, I'm ALWAYS extra careful. Law says I don't have to be this careful, I do it anyway".

For a number of reasons, it might not be the greatest idea to record how much you sold it for. Is that really anyone's business? Your not operating any kind of gun business are you? If so, you absolutely NEED an FFL! If your engaging in the practice of buying & selling guns for profit & livelihood your probably going to prison eventually, and you know what, YOU BELONG THERE!


I hear you, and I agree with 98% of what you're saying. I personally won't sell private to someone who doesn't have an AZ CC, and I make them show it to me. I always show them my CC as well, but there is no way I'm going to let them make a copy/take a photo of that or my AZDL. That can get into the wrong hands all too easily — shoot, maybe someone even breaks into YOUR house and steals your papers. You got copies of my DL and CC? Guess where Mr. Bad Guy is headed next? Especially as Arizonans, I feel we need to show the example of what responsible and free gun ownership is.
 
I am not in the gun business, but if I were to private sale any firearm I have - I would only sell face-to-face, and the buyer would have to present me with their valid AZ CCW.

You should keep well in mind Sir an AZ CCW does NOT prove residency!!! Non-residents can legally acquire them.It's possible things have changed recently, I've renewed mine several times, none of them ever had my address or distinguished between resident or non-resident. I've friends from out of state with non-resident AZ CCWs and they look no different from mine.

Only Govt issued photo ID serves as legal proof of residency.
 
I hear you, and I agree with 98% of what you're saying. I personally won't sell private to someone who doesn't have an AZ CC, and I make them show it to me. I always show them my CC as well, but there is no way I'm going to let them make a copy/take a photo of that or my AZDL. That can get into the wrong hands all too easily — shoot, maybe someone even breaks into YOUR house and steals your papers. You got copies of my DL and CC? Guess where Mr. Bad Guy is headed next? Especially as Arizonans, I feel we need to show the example of what responsible and free gun ownership is.

I respect your opinion Sir and I wouldn't let anyone photo or photo-copy my credentials either. I hand write that info and whomever I choose to trade with is welcome to do same. Needless to say I'm very selective about who I transact with. I wanna chat a little and get a feel for you. If I don't like the vibes, game over, have a nice day. I could always be wrong but as the saying goes, "if it don't feel right, it probably isn't".

Anyone who isn't willing to play by those simple rules is a red flag to me. "Mr. Bad Guy" isn't gonna trade info because he knows he's gonna get caught if he does anything nefarious with mine. Further, if I don't trust you enough to let you jot down my info, I sure as hell don't trust you enough to sell you a firearm.

BTW, an AZ CCW alone is NOT proof of residency! See my previous post on this topic.
 
Understand care in the law, but the laws are meaningless! I remember having a 1911A1 sent to my Calif. door for $20 and no background. The last bunch was damn near $1000 with I think 3 backgrounds if you lived there, and any hick ups, and who knows where the money and pistol ended up at? Still the same person, but the hell with those who want to stop our second amendment rights. If you are not by law not able to own a firearm, then any and all should be allowed to be able to buy a firearm. I bought my first .22 brand new at a downtown pawn shop at age 15, almost 16. No questions asked for $20. As it should be, and did not have a drivers license for almost two years later. Why does that have to be a identifier for anyone? So served in the Marines at 17, and so far at 80, still remain a free man and not a slave!

Chronologically Sir I'm not that far behind you, but I bow before your more advanced experience and wisdom. However, I surely wouldn't advise telling ANY judge "...the laws are meaningless". Assuredly that won't end well.
Those laws have indeed changed a great deal over the years and not necessarily for the better. In other cases, not exactly for the worst either. As a 3rd grader, I saved my pennies from lunch change all week to buy a box of .22LR ammo at the local drug store/soda fountain. I'd reach up, slide my coins across the counter and "Doc" slid my ammo back with this caveat: "Set any of these off near my store Son and I'll tan your hide, understand" ?
Oh yeah I did. Doc was a great guy, was real good to us kids but he MEANT it and we all knew it. It's a different world for sure Sir. I'm pretty sure we'd agree not entirely a better one. Most of us would prefer to be allowed to do whatever we want . Progress has brought us a whole new breed of criminals though and not everyone is capable of providing their own law enforcement. So much the pity...
I don't like it anymore than you do. Laws don't really do a whole lot to protect anyone but they do help cage the uncontrollable animals.


I like your style Mr. OohRah. Maybe we could share a range sometime.
Semper Fi
 

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