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Question about private party firearms sales these days

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as for the Age of purchase federal law is 18 for long guns and 21 for pistols

AZ law is 18 for long guns and 18 for pistols. That is why in a private sale in AZ an 18yo can buy a pistol but they can't purchase a pistol from a store.
I stand corrected on this i Did think it was a state of AZ law. That is incorrect it is federal.

HATE IT when I am wrong. Happens more than I care to admit
 
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OP
wildcat455
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as for the Age of purchase federal law is 18 for long guns and 21 for pistols

AZ law is 18 for long guns and 18 for pistols. That is why in a private sale in AZ an 18yo can buy a pistol but they can't purchase a pistol from a store.
On the Federal, You are citing ages for purchase from an FFL.
Federal private party is different.
Straight from the ATF page linked in this thread:

"An individual between 18 and 21 years of age may acquire a handgun from an unlicensed individual who resides in the same State, provided the person acquiring the handgun is not otherwise prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A Federal firearms licensee may not, however, sell or deliver a firearm other than a shotgun or rifle to a person the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is under 21 years of age.
There may be State or local laws or regulations that govern this type of transaction. Contact the office of your State Attorney General for information on any such requirements.
[18 U.S.C. 922(b)(1)]"
 
OP
wildcat455
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Wildcat455 that is correct but the discussion FACE TO FACE not FFL to FFL
It still would be considered a FTF sale, but thru the FFL of the buyer. The FFL of the buyer administers the paperwork.
Seller receives the money, ships it to buyers FFL in his home state.
Buyer fills out paperwork and gets NICS check. When he comes back clear FFL gives him gun.
I only brought it up because you said it was illegal to sell a pistol to an out of state resident, but there is a legal path to allow it.
 
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It still would be considered a FTF sale, but thru the FFL of the buyer. The FFL of the buyer administers the paperwork.
Seller receives the money, ships it to buyers FFL in his home state.
Buyer fills out paperwork and gets NICS check. When he comes back clear FFL gives him gun.
I only brought it up because you said it was illegal to sell a pistol to an out of state resident, but there is a legal path to allow it.
My idea of face to face is I hand someone money they give me a pistol

If I am from out of state and buy a pistol the seller must give the pistol to an ffl they ship it to my home state where I fill out the 4473 and abide by my state laws.

Now rifles are a hole different thing
 
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But one of your original concerns was why you should haft to show identification in FTF transfer, using ffl you must present an ID
 
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I saw an 'ad' on Armslist today that claimed that if you have sell someone a firearm and they sign a bill of sale, said bill of sale will be used as evidence against you if they turn out to be a prohibited possessor. I truly can not see that happening - especially since the bill of sale that I use contains the same basic questions as form 4473. As soon as they sign it, they attest that they are not prohibited from possessing a firearm.

I suppose there is always the possibility that some piece of garbage lawyer or judge would find a way to twist things around - nothing would surprise me in this day and age.
 
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I saw an 'ad' on Armslist today that claimed that if you have sell someone a firearm and they sign a bill of sale, said bill of sale will be used as evidence against you if they turn out to be a prohibited possessor. I truly can not see that happening - especially since the bill of sale that I use contains the same basic questions as form 4473. As soon as they sign it, they attest that they are not prohibited from possessing a firearm.

I suppose there is always the possibility that some piece of garbage lawyer or judge would find a way to twist things around - nothing would surprise me in this day and age.
I find that very unlikely to happen.
 
OP
wildcat455
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1971Chevelle,

It's an easy fix. On your BOS, add a statement to this effect for your signature:

I truthfully affirm as the seller of this firearm, I am legally entitled to do so and that I believe the buyer signed this document honestly, and is not to my knowledge unable to legally possess or own this firearm.
 
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Lol! I was just looking at that pistol you have for sale!
Definitely interested.

Why are you doing it though without any legal requirement?
Not saying you should or shouldn't. It's your business, just wondering why?

Peace of mind,? Security? Those are ideals.
No matter what you do, you'll never have either if you can't let go of the fear of them knocking at your door.
Kind of like Liberty. Something we should all have but our fears of this or that put us into THEIR box for them!!

I assume you are righteous in your actions. Responsible. Prudent. If not you should be. If so, what do you realistically have to fear?

I'm not sure that BOS will get you're looking for. It just documents the sale, and if you go down the rabbit hole to boost your own requirements above what the law requires, I believe it feeds the prosecuting attorney's argument that You must have known or suspected something was up with the sale or why else would you require such a thing? .
Which only serves to pull you in further.

Also like someone requiring someone to be 21 to buy their pistol in a private sale.
An 18 year old is legally allowed to buy a private sale pistol, they just can't from an FFL.
I think that is More of a federal restriction on the FFL which spills over into the rights of an 18 year old.

Why do we seek to restrict everyone, and in the end, restrict ourselves?

Just a little bit about me.
I'm a far cry from 18, I have a current valid CCW, I am not a prohibited possessor by ANY stretch.
I am concerned for the eroding away of out rights, as "Free Citizens", (Which in my opinion, is an illusion today as compared to when this whole country kicked off, but that can be a subject for another post).

I'm 55, it's not like I got allot of years ahead of me living under the Jack boot of some Communist Fed, but I care about our future as a country of free citizens.
My concerns for the direction of this country stem from my patriotism, my God given rights, assured to me by my constitution, NOT granted to me by it or my government. I do believe in my country, my constitution, but I do actually fear my government.
And I'd like to see future generations enjoy freedoms and liberties we have already been denied by our political leaders and people in our Government.

That is the source of my curiosity toward this. If as people and citizens we seek to undermine the liberties and freedoms we are legally entitled to, I assume because of fear, well, aren't we furthering the agenda of the Left, which is something no free citizen should want?
Never ever provide anyone with your ID, Only the buyers FFL should have the sellers info. people tend to ask your details but they are not necessarily need to have.
 
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Trust me, when the ATF comes knocking on your door because a firearm YOU purchased brand new is used in a crime - YOU will want to have documentation that tells them who you sold it to, and when.

I would be guessing here, but I think verification of one's whereabouts at the time of the crime, a total lack of a motive, and / or proof of never having met the victim would carry more weight than a non-notarized bill of sale . . . .

Now if the victim turns out to be your ex-wife, that bill of sale ain't gonna be worth squat.

If said sale occurred via an online portal like this one, the documentation of the contact and transaction is already recorded and in the public domain. Both parties are easily discoverable via IP address and ISP records.

Common sense folks, common sense . . .
 
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With all due respect to everyone’s opinions and quotes of law etc......
I just went through this with the ATF 2-3 months ago. I purchased.a used firearm maybe 8-9 years ago. Seller kept great records and sent the ATF to me. I had sold said gun 3-4 years ago and I DONT DO BOS. When asked to whom I sold it to I very politely replied that I am a firm believer in our constitution and especially the 2nd amendment. Told the two agents I asked the buyer for ID to verify he was an Arizona resident (which I thought I had to do) but didn’t and don’t keep records as it’s not required by law. Answered their questions as best I could from memory but trust me I didn’t remember much. The two agents thanked me and sent me on my way. Now I don’t know the status of this case so I’m not going into details any further than I have already.
 

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