Maxed out my Remington 700 .308 distance at 1250 yards

[Glockenstien]

So I have maxed out in distance with my Remington 700 .308. I can consistently hit my target at 1250yards. But my projectiles are tumbling when they are hit the target. I want to reach to 1760 yards. There are many different calibers that will do that but which one would be the best for my goal distance? Any thoughts on this? The picture is three shots I took at 1000 the target is not easy to get to take pictures of that is why I don't have the 1250. Yard shots

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[nmwabbit]

Since you failed to mention the specific cartridge you are using in your long range distance experiments, it is difficult to provde any certainty which might assist you.

That stated, when the projectile [bullet] is tumbling as it reaches distant end it is a good indicator the projectile has run out of energy!

Perhaps you should look at the individual manufacturers cartridge's ballistic(s) across the .308 range and see which might have more bang to power the projectile further.

Might check out RIFLE INFORMATION PAGE

 

[nvshooter]

The bullet is tumbling because it has lost a great deal of the velocity that is part of what keeps it stabilized as it travels through the air. What is the rifling rate of the barrel? It should be at least 1:10 for the masses of the bullets to be used in a .30-caliber target rifle. A bullet that is long and heavy will not stabilize in a slow-twist barrel. I have a Thompson-Center Encore in .223 Remington. Its 1:12 barrel keyholes a 75-grain A-max at 50 yards. My 1:8 Wylde barrel in the same chambering puts the same bullets tightly together at 100 yards.

The US military has put the .300WinMag into service as a sniper weapon. A maximum powder charge of 76.0 grains of Reloder 19 will send a 180-grain MatchKing out of the tube at 3059 fps. I'd have to guess the military would want a shell that would hit its target at not less than 1000 yards. Who can say, but maybe they'd also want a lightweight rifle (around fifteen pounds versus the Barrett M82 at around thirty pounds) to hit at one mile?



The photo is of your group at 1000 yards. I saw just two splatters but after looking at it a bit, I figgered the upper right was also a bullet even though the splatter had a flat side on it. I chalked that up to the paint chipping off. My eyeball guess at the size of this group is right around 1¼ inches, which would put in right up there with a world record-- for just this one group. If I recall, the world record is something like 1.441 aggregate inches over five each five-shot groups. Do it four more times on the same day, and you'll make history.

My .300 Nevada Desert Magnum mildcat has proven itself to be a very accurate cartridge, but only over distances to 450 yards. I want to take it out to 1000; just have never put forth the effort to do it. 2000 yards is a lot of walking in the summer heat of Nevada. Such a walk would take about 23 minutes at a rate of 20 minutes per mile.

The .300NDM is what the .30-06 Springfield would be on a magnum case. 68.0 grains of H4831SC launches a 180-grain MatchKing at 3000 fps. That ought to easily go 1000 yards. Ought to go 1250, too, but then there's the tumbling problem you're seeing. The twist rate in my heavy, stainless Hart barrel is 1-in-10. The chamber is cut to very minimum tolerances. The total clearance around the neck is 0.001 inches. The barrel is 27 inches long, and was dialed-in with a super-straight rod (that rod has a name; can't remember it right now) to no more than 0.0001 inches total run-out at 24 inches from the mouth of the receiver. My late gunsmith had to recut the receiver threads because they had the original 300WSM Krieger barrel (in SAAMI spec) off by 0.018 inches at the same 24 inches from the receiver.

Accuracy is all about getting everything straight in line with the center-line of the raceways in the receiver. You need a concentric receiver, a straight bore, a straight stock (this is where an aluminum chassis comes in) and a good bedding job (here again, the aluminum chassis shines). The base for the scope must be aligned with the action's raceways. The scope must be aligned with the raceways, which may require the rings to be lapped. You need a really good scope. A Nightforce is around $2500; a Schmitt-Bender is over $3000. You need good weather conditions but most of all you need to practice, practice, practice...

 

[Glockenstien]

Since you failed to mention the specific cartridge you are using in your long range distance experiments, it is difficult to provde any certainty which might assist you.

That stated, when the projectile [bullet] is tumbling as it reaches distant end it is a good indicator the projectile has run out of energy!

Perhaps you should look at the individual manufacturers cartridge's ballistic(s) across the .308 range and see which might have more bang to power the projectile further.

Might check out RIFLE INFORMATION PAGE

ok yes you are correct I'm sorry. It 178gr Seirra Match King, fed. 210 primer 45gr of 748 win and LC brass. That mixture seemed the most consistent round even more than federal white box. It average 2876fps and at 100 yrds i had half inch grouping. At 1000 yards the bullet was hitting the target with 810 lbs per square inch.

 

[nvshooter]

That mixture seemed the most consistent round, even more than Federal white box. It averages 2876 fps at 100 yards; I had half-inch grouping. At 1000 yards the bullet was hitting the target with 810 lbs per square inch.

I'd never shoot factory ammo for grouping. Factory ammo is filled by volume instead of by weight. I assume the 2876 fps at 100 yards is from a ballistics table? If so, there should be a value there for the velocity at 1000 yards. Should be one for 1250, too, if you can set the parameters for how far out you want to go.

JBM - Calculations

 

[Glockenstien]

The bullet is tumbling because it has lost a great deal of the velocity that is part of what keeps it stabilized as it travels through the air. What is the rifling rate of the barrel? It should be at least 1:10 for the masses of the bullets to be used in a .30-caliber target rifle. A bullet that is long and heavy will not stabilize in a slow-twist barrel. I have a Thompson-Center Encore in .223 Remington. Its 1:12 barrel keyholes a 75-grain A-max at 50 yards. My 1:8 Wylde barrel in the same chambering puts the same bullets tightly together at 100 yards.

The US military has put the .300WinMag into service as a sniper weapon. A maximum powder charge of 76.0 grains of Reloder 19 will send a 180-grain MatchKing out of the tube at 3059 fps. I'd have to guess the military would want a shell that would hit its target at not less than 1000 yards. Who can say, but maybe they'd also want a lightweight rifle (around fifteen pounds versus the Barrett M82 at around thirty pounds) to hit at one mile?

View attachment 2017

The photo is of your group at 1000 yards. I saw just two splatters but after looking at it a bit, I figgered the upper right was also a bullet even though the splatter had a flat side on it. I chalked that up to the paint chipping off. My eyeball guess at the size of this group is right around 1¼ inches, which would put in right up there with a world record-- for just this one group. If I recall, the world record is something like 1.441 aggregate inches over five each five-shot groups. Do it four more times on the same day, and you'll make history.

My .300 Nevada Desert Magnum mildcat has proven itself to be a very accurate cartridge, but only over distances to 450 yards. I want to take it out to 1000; just have never put forth the effort to do it. 2000 yards is a lot of walking in the summer heat of Nevada.

The .300NDM is what the .30-06 Springfield would be on a magnum case. 68.0 grains of H4831SC launches a 180-grain MatchKing at 3000 fps. That ought to easily go 1000 yards. Ought to go 1250, too, but then there's the tumbling problem you're seeing. The twist rate in my heavy, stainless Hart barrel is 1-in-10. The chamber is cut to very minimum tolerances. The total clearance around the neck is 0.001 inches. The barrel is 27 inches long, and was dialed-in with a super-straight rod (that rod has a name; can't remember it right now) to no more than 0.0001 inches total run-out at 24 inches from the mouth of the receiver. My late gunsmith had to recut the receiver threads because they had the original 300WSM Krieger barrel (in SAAMI spec) off by 0.018 inches at the same 24 inches from the receiver.

Accuracy is all about getting everything straight in line with the center-line of the raceways in the receiver. You need a concentric receiver, a straight bore, a straight stock (this is where an aluminum chassis comes in) and a good bedding job (here again, the aluminum chassis shines). The base for the scope must be aligned with the action's raceways. The scope must be aligned with the raceways, which may require the rings to be lapped. You need a really good scope. A Nightforce is around $2500; a Schmitt-Bender is over $3000. You need good weather conditions but most of all you need to practice, practice, practice...

my Remington 700 XP's was the rifle I was useing it has a 26 inch heavy fluted barrel 1:10 twist which a free floating hoag stock and a vortex viper scope. I've been getting to know my mossberg patorit 300 win mag. But I'm not comfortable with it it's too light and I'm not in sync like I am with my Remington. But I usually when I can get to use a quad I have a target set up where you can shoot almost 1 mile and a half. But I don't have the a scope powerful enough to see that far and can't afford one either.

 

[nvshooter]

My Remington 700 SPS is the rifle I was using. It has a 26-inch, heavy, fluted barrel in 1:10 twist with a free-floating Hogue stock and a Vortex Viper scope. I've been getting to know my Mossberg Patriot in 300WinMag, but I'm not comfortable with it. It's too light and I'm not in-sync with it like I am with my Remington. When I can use a quad, I have a target set up to shoot almost a mile and a half. But I don't have a scope powerful enough to see that far and can't afford one, either.

You must have your own land upon which you shoot to lay-out a 1.5-mile range. Gotta be nice, is all I can say.

My worry with shooting at extreme distances in the public desert is that some long-haired stoner on a dirtbike will come along and steal my stuff when I'm way, way, way downrange. My target rifle is chambered in a mildcat of my own design, so nobody could ever shoot it again without changing the barrel (that process is about $800) or having my custom-made die sets on their reloading bench. It's also left-handed, so it would never sell in a pawn shop. The scope is a 6-24X x 50mm Vortex Viper PST with illuminated reticule. I paid $1022 for it, walkin' out the door. If the stoner is possessed of an IQ of 20-25, he'd take the scope off and sell it in a pawn shop for enough to buy a crack rock or two. I have no reservations that the pawnbroker would gladly give the crackhead whatever little money the drugs would cost in exchange for a $1000 scope in mint condition.

 

[Glockenstien]

No its BLM land and only a few know about it. The shooting positions are elevated about 100 feet above the some what canyon floor and you can see the whole way to the target. The best time to go shooting up there is about 4 or 5 am the sun comes up behind you and there is usally no wind in the morning. I used to get up at 3am shoot for about an hour or so then make it back in time to go to work. I would tell you where it is but I don't want a whole lot of people knowing about it. The ones that do know about it enough.

 

[nvshooter]

I would tell you where it is, but I don't want a whole lot of people knowing about it.

I understand. It's like a secret fishin' hole. I live not too far from Reno, so you'll never see me in Vegas with any of my firearms. I drove from Sparks to the Meadow Gold creamery (and back) out by the Petro on I-15 169 times. I've been to Vegas plenty of times for this life. I've got a great BLM place just three miles from my house. It's a dry lakebed, 1400 yards long, about 700 yards wide and dead-flat across the bottom. Just a lunger-hawk to the north is a little wash that's 600-some yards long and maybe 200 yards wide. I can go out there and shoot for several hours, and never see another soul the entire time. I came from northern Virginia in 2004 just to have a place to shoot. Best thing I ever did...

 

[Glockenstien]

Damn now that sound like a dream I couldnt even imagine a place like that.

 

[nvshooter]

Damn, now. That sounds like a dream. I couldn't even imagine a place like that.

I was directed to the dry lakebed by a county deputy in October 2004. I was on the top of a rock hill, overlooking I-80 from less than 100 yards behind my back. I had several rifles and handguns with me, and was about 250 yards from the Town's water tank. I was shooting to the north at pieces of windblown trash below the tank. I had so many guns with me because back in Virginia if something you own isn't welded to the floor, it gets stolen while your eyes blink. I finished shooting at the trash and walked back to my car. The deputy shows up before I get back to my vehicle, waits for me and asks me why was I sitting above the highway with so many guns, and was I shooting holes into the water tank. I said No, just shooting at the trash and I have so many guns on me because I'm from Virginia and only a fool leaves his guns in his car while he's several hundred yards away. The lawman says I shouldn't be up there, and that I should go to Sarasota Flats to shoot. I said "Sarasota! That's in Florida. I moved to Nevada to shoot." He said "No; just follow the pole line to the north, and you'll see it." I thanked him, he drove away and I went in search of Sarasota Flats. I found it...

The very first time I laid eyes upon Cerasola/Cerisola/Serasola Flats (I'm unsure of the spelling), I thought I'd died and gone to Heaven. Here was this huge expanse of land with no gates, no fences, no barbed wire, no No Hunting signs, no No Trespassing signs, no Posted signs ordering me to stay off, no Private Property signs, no fees, no hours of operation, no limits on shots per second, no No Class III Weapons Allowed signs and no Membership Required signs-- none of the irritating krapp that makes paid ranges such a pain in the obama. I drove my car down into the lake to see how far it was from one end to the other. 1400 yards; 0.8 miles. I had finally found a place where I could shoot close to my house and no one would come along and tell me to get the hellsinki off their land. In Virginia, as on much of the East Coast, all the open land larger than a postage stamp has been owned by some other glans penis for 300 years and you can bet your clappers they do not want you or your Evil Black Rifle on it. I went out there several times before February 2005 when I was at a place close to Sarasola Flats and met my now-best friend JR at a short range just a mile or so north of I-80. He showed me other places to shoot in the same area that I had no idea were so close to my home.

I came 2400 miles to shoot. Where I live in Northern Nevada is the place to be. I pity the poor sods who live in Kalifonia, New Yorkistan, Taxachusetts, Helaware or in any other place that imposes so many restrictions on a basic Constitutional Right. Nevadans can own machine guns, M82 Barretts, SBRs, suppressors, SBSs and AOWs. If he has the money, a Nevadan can take his M2 Browning out to the desert and rip it up to his heart's content. No one will say obama to him. I call that "Freedom."

Our State government does not automatically suspect the residents will go out and use such weapons for evil. In the liberal sewage treatment plants that we call many of the East Coast States, those statehouses automatically deign to say that any man with a black rifle is two seconds from being the next Parkland-type shooter. This is because liberalism always looks for (and always assumes) the very worst in a person. Liberalism does not believe in the Reasonable Man theory. No; under nanny-state liberalism every man is a criminal who needs government to keep him honest and not a threat to his fellow criminals on the street and in his town. Quite an insult, isn't it? It is to me.

We have a gubernatorial election in November. If Steve Sisolak wins and the Evil Left takes complete control of the State government, I may have to move to Utah or to Idaho. All I can do is vote. All of us in our respective States must vote for Liberty. Imagine Nancy Pelosi and Chucky Bullschumer telling you how to live your life. The very idea makes me want to puke...

 

[Glockenstien]

You know I couldn't agree with you more. I live my life well kinda of the way i want to. I mean, I'm white! That is apparently not a good thing anymore because I'm automatically I'm a racist. Oh now i cant forget I'm free! Oh wait not so much. The illegals have more freedoms than i do. Hmmmm well at least theirs my health. Oh wait everything that i do causes cancer. Man well might as well go blow something up then cause I'm a racist, some what free American, who is going to die of cancer one day. Ahhhhh its great to be American!!!!!!

 

[nvshooter]

Sounds like I really struck a chord with you...

 

[Glockenstien]

Ya you did its out of tune though.

 

[Mrjenkins]

A 20mm anti tank rifle with a legitimate astronomy telescope customized with crosshairs inside it sitting on a browning 1919 type tripod mount. 1700 yards will seem like 3 feet.

 

[nvshooter]

A 20mm anti-tank rifle...

I expect such weaponry is classified by ATF as a destructive device, and the People are not permitted to own them. About that, I have no problem.