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What sort of group size do you get at 10 yards with a S&W J-Frame, 1-7/8" barrel ?
Group size with 1-7/8" J-Frame
- Thread starter Hook686
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At 10 feet, I can hold it down to about 2", if I try. But, that's not what my .38 +P J-frame was intended for (notched frame rear sight, and front blade).
For most practice sessions with the J-frame, I just use the front sight as a "barrel direction indicator". I don't actually aim with the sights. I just fire when I see that boat rudder front sight sticking up above the frame, and coming across the target. At 7 yards (21 feet), that works out to groups of about 7-12" (+P or not).
For most practice sessions with the J-frame, I just use the front sight as a "barrel direction indicator". I don't actually aim with the sights. I just fire when I see that boat rudder front sight sticking up above the frame, and coming across the target. At 7 yards (21 feet), that works out to groups of about 7-12" (+P or not).
OP
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Hmmmm that is good. If I try hard I can get about 7" at 10 yards. The front sight on the M&P 340 is a XS sight. It is very big and easy to focus on. I will keep practicing. If you can get 2", then so can I. After all, a J-Frame is a J-Frame. Thanks for the reply.
Hook686, I mis-read your original post. For some reason, my brain read "10 feet" where you typed "10 yards". Just ignore my "2 inches at 10 feet" statement, and we'll be good.
It sounds like we're getting similar performance out of the S&Ws. So, I wouldn't worry much.
It sounds like we're getting similar performance out of the S&Ws. So, I wouldn't worry much.
Wow, that's not bad for such a small gun. I've been debating whether to get an LCR or a j-frame for some time now. I recently purchased a S&W 325 Night Guard (.45ACP) and I can't believe how accurate I am with it. Before shooting it I was leaning toward the LCR, but now I'm not so sure.
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The Kahr Micro 9mm is very accurate. But now they are so expensive... the LCR feels nice though. Decisions...decisions.
Tokarev Czar
http://hubpages.com/t/2ef6f0
Tokarev Czar
http://hubpages.com/t/2ef6f0
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Speaking of group size, I took a new Tokarev TTC to the range, this is with PPU ammo (Serbian) at 20 ft. 7 shot group. The pistol is very accurate, although the shots tend to be to the left this is my doing. (Yes, there were 7 shots)
OP
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Well some folks sure seem to do better than I do. I've been practicing a year now and have not gotten measurably smaller grouping at 10 yards. I still have about a 7" group with an occasional flyer out at 10-12". This is aimed slow fire, not rapid fire, or from the hip/point shooting. I have my California qualification shooting for each of my CCW handguns in a couple weeks and this little J-Frame is the only one of the three that gives me grief.
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My groups with a 2" revolver varies depending on ammo used and the trigger pull of the particular firearm. And, of course sight picture is important. Use your sights, whenever you can.
BTW.......comment(s) about sight picture.
My S&W M60 has a better sight picture than my girlfriend's "Charter Arms Off Duty" revolver. The S&W has a serated frt sight while the CA does not. And, the visual space on the sides of the frt sight to the rear notch, is wider on the S&W. IMHO, the S&W is a better buy. But, you'll be paying for it.
Anyway, GENERALLY........
I'll call it a good day if I keep all my shots within the black at 7 yds. Double action. That is with my moderate/low end .38 special re-loads. Using higher powered ammo can have the effect of opening up groups. It's mostly due to the psy effects.
LOL. Back in the old days when my eyes were younger I wouldn't have a good day unless I could keep them in the black at 25 yds. double action w/ a 4 inch revolver.
Aloha, Mark
BTW.......comment(s) about sight picture.
My S&W M60 has a better sight picture than my girlfriend's "Charter Arms Off Duty" revolver. The S&W has a serated frt sight while the CA does not. And, the visual space on the sides of the frt sight to the rear notch, is wider on the S&W. IMHO, the S&W is a better buy. But, you'll be paying for it.
Anyway, GENERALLY........
I'll call it a good day if I keep all my shots within the black at 7 yds. Double action. That is with my moderate/low end .38 special re-loads. Using higher powered ammo can have the effect of opening up groups. It's mostly due to the psy effects.
LOL. Back in the old days when my eyes were younger I wouldn't have a good day unless I could keep them in the black at 25 yds. double action w/ a 4 inch revolver.
Aloha, Mark
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I don't have pictures to prove it, but the last time I went shooting with my LCR I was able to get a 1" tall x 2" wide 5-shot group at 10 yards slow-fire using Remington UMC 130 gr FMJ.
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The CCW qualification in CA sucks. I suppose it wouldn't be that much of an issue if I didn't want to have a NAA Mini revolver on my permit...
38 J-frame? If you can keep them on a 9" paper plate you are doing OK. Slow
fire at 10 yds or grip-it-n-rip-it at in your face range if you can keep them on a paper
plate it will be effective.
The 22 J frames are a different critter. I've got a 2" mdl 34 that is surprisingly
accurate. A big part of that is probably the adjustable sights.
fire at 10 yds or grip-it-n-rip-it at in your face range if you can keep them on a paper
plate it will be effective.
The 22 J frames are a different critter. I've got a 2" mdl 34 that is surprisingly
accurate. A big part of that is probably the adjustable sights.
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I can hold about a 5" group with my Model 36 S&W at 10 yards if I really concentrate. If I'm shooting while moving, or doing some other reality based training, the group opens up closer to 8". I can hand the same gun to a buddy of mine who is an instructor and he keeps it at 2-3" shooting for groups, or 4-5" while shooting and moving.
I've modified some of my j-frames with better sights. That has helped. Especially on older model S&W's, the narrow black blade and narrow notch are not designed for accurate shooting at any sort of distance. I've opened some rear notches up to .125" and added better front sights. My preference is for gold beads, but most of the guys in my shooting circles prefer fiber optic sights.
I've modified some of my j-frames with better sights. That has helped. Especially on older model S&W's, the narrow black blade and narrow notch are not designed for accurate shooting at any sort of distance. I've opened some rear notches up to .125" and added better front sights. My preference is for gold beads, but most of the guys in my shooting circles prefer fiber optic sights.
OP
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MB .... The J-Frame is an older model with the black narrow blade solid one piece front sight. What were you able to replace it with? Who did the work for you and as it costly?
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I did the work myself. The curse/benefit of being a gunsmith. I machined off the front ramp and cut in a dovetail .060" deep and installed a Novak blank (the rib on the barrel is just about .125" wide, so it was about right). I took a .125" ball end mill and opened up the rear sight channel a bit (mostly for width, rather than depth). I filed the blank at the range until point of aim was regulated with point of impact for the loads I wanted to use. I marked the left/right orientation of the front sight, pulled it and installed a .125" gold bead from SDM (more of a dome profile than some of the other options out there). I removed the gold bead, tinned the parts, applied heat stop paste liberally, and silver soldered the front sight on. I then machined the sides of the dovetail even with the barrel rib. I had some other work I did also, sent it to be cerakoted and epoxied the gold bead back in. Voila.
Its a long, drawn out process, but when I don't have to pay for labor, it makes it easier. If I had to send it to another gunsmith, I don't know that I would have done it. I wasn't paying attention to the labor and time since it was my own toy. I just buried it in amongst other projects when I had time. Probably a few hours of machining, plus test firing and regulating to ammo (about 20-30 rounds of JHP ammo, critical defense, I think), plus refinishing, plus parts. Parts were actually fairly cheap. $20 for the front sight, $25 for the gold bead, and other incidentals.
I have since been conned out of that particular revolver, but I have another one that I plan on doing the same thing to. If I remember, I will try to post before, during, and after photos.
Its a long, drawn out process, but when I don't have to pay for labor, it makes it easier. If I had to send it to another gunsmith, I don't know that I would have done it. I wasn't paying attention to the labor and time since it was my own toy. I just buried it in amongst other projects when I had time. Probably a few hours of machining, plus test firing and regulating to ammo (about 20-30 rounds of JHP ammo, critical defense, I think), plus refinishing, plus parts. Parts were actually fairly cheap. $20 for the front sight, $25 for the gold bead, and other incidentals.
I have since been conned out of that particular revolver, but I have another one that I plan on doing the same thing to. If I remember, I will try to post before, during, and after photos.
OP
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Intense. Please do remember. Pictures are priceless.
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When I was 16 I was allowed to fire one of the New M-60's that had just come out. I was shooting wad cutter target loads at 15 yards. The factory grips were not comfortable and affected my trigger pull but I managed to group 5 shots in about 2 inches using single action
I shoot a S & W 442, and can do 5 shots into an 81/2 x 11 piece of paper from the draw in about 6 seconds at 7 yards...and btw, its not easy (at least for me) to do...takes some practice.
