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It seems to me that from history the biggest tribe takes away from smaller tribes. In a meltdown situation, how do you plan to form and manage a tribe ? I have three family members locally, but they are 2, 5, 8 miles distant. I suspect that after a few days being accepted into a tribe might be rather remote.
 
Very good question, one I hadn't really considered. I know where I'll attempt to make my way to if something did happen, in order to meet up with family, but there are sure to be others around.
 
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My reaction plan (there ain't no plan) is easy...
In Utah and some parts of surrounding states, there is already a network in place: The Mormon Church. Whether you believe in their gospel, or not, it will be the easiest route to take in places where they are the majority (or even the majority minority).

Planning to leach off their supplies will get you nowhere, but the communications and support network already in place will do a great deal for stability, safety, protection, resource management, and resource gathering.
 
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I never thought of it as a "tribe", but the notion of creating a larger group has always been part of my JICTSHTF plan.

Currently I've got my family (two parts due to divorce/remarriage so pretty big) and the families of two of my closest friends (a "survival group" of sorts) set up to join and pool skills and resources. The pool includes 2 LEOs, 2 retired USN aircraft mechanics, a nurse, and several automotive enthusiasts with mechanical aptitude to spare. Most are proficient with firearms.

My reaction plan (there ain't no plan) is easy...
In Utah and some parts of surrounding states, there is already a network in place: The Mormon Church. Whether you believe in their gospel, or not, it will be the easiest route to take in places where they are the majority (or even the majority minority).

Planning to leach off their supplies will get you nowhere, but the communications and support network already in place will do a great deal for stability, safety, protection, resource management, and resource gathering.

I don't agree with their doctrine, but The Mormon Church always seemed to me a model of how a religious group should be. The have what is probably the best mutual support group (for problems spiritual and otherwise) I have ever seen. Around here we have a group in the physical Church one attends, but it is nothing like what is in The Mormon Church. They will always have my respect for that.
 
I don't agree with their doctrine, but The Mormon Church always seemed to me a model of how a religious group should be. The have what is probably the best mutual support group (for problems spiritual and otherwise) I have ever seen. Around here we have a group in the physical Church one attends, but it is nothing like what is in The Mormon Church. They will always have my respect for that.

I agree with this. I thought the catholic church was like that when I was younger, but I've come to find they're much more splintered.
 
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This is perpetually an interesting topic, as it combines future studies, social dynamics, and combines well with a historical study of anthropology.

There are two things at play here, as you said, bigger tribes take from smaller tribes, however due to the malthusian limits in a given geographic area, there will always be a fixed size any group of humans can reside in one area. This is mathematically based that each person will need a certain amount of area on which to grow produce, livestock, forage, hunt or gather.

The most successful strategies historically have been those groups who keep animals, and garden, I can tell because there are very few hunter gathers today, in fact the world of anthropology gets all excited when they find a new group of hunter gatherers somewhere in the world, because they are functionally extinct.

Human populations have risen to the numbers they have because we can simply produce more food more efficiently with our division of labor and free market systems. Also, our command of sources of energy to produce fertilizer, and run farming machinery means that 2% of the domestic population can grow enough food that we are still a net-exporter of food. That is pretty incredible when you think about it.

However, when it comes to trying to create a "tribe" there are a few things to keep in mind... the one thing I never see anyone talking about when they speak of survival skills is management experience. While this may sound trite, being able to manage and motivate people is a very important quality to have. I will point out, I don't mean someone who has been a shift lead at McDonalds, or your jerkface boss. Good managers are the key to dynamic and successful organizations, inefficient managers are tolerated today because most of the systems where they exist have enough largess that they can tolerate a certain amount of friction.

In a SHTF future, resources will be scarce and waste cannot be tolerated, waste equates to a missed meal, a cold night without a fire, a life threatening infection, and dead people, so having good management is key to forming a successful tribe, otherwise your tribe will look like something off a reality TV show, where everyone wants to vote everyone else off, or people are colluding against one another.

If you don't have a manager, or don't have a clear leader, you should at the very least realize the qualities you will need in a leader and manager. At the same time, putting yourself into a leadership role without having the necessary qualifications will likely be equally disastrous. I would suggest reading "How to Win Friends and Influence" and take it to heart.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influence_People

If you are not a good manager, consider finding one for your "tribe"
 
This is perpetually an interesting topic, as it combines future studies, social dynamics, and combines well with a historical study of anthropology.

There are two things at play here, as you said, bigger tribes take from smaller tribes, however due to the malthusian limits in a given geographic area, there will always be a fixed size any group of humans can reside in one area. This is mathematically based that each person will need a certain amount of area on which to grow produce, livestock, forage, hunt or gather.

The most successful strategies historically have been those groups who keep animals, and garden, I can tell because there are very few hunter gathers today, in fact the world of anthropology gets all excited when they find a new group of hunter gatherers somewhere in the world, because they are functionally extinct.

Human populations have risen to the numbers they have because we can simply produce more food more efficiently with our division of labor and free market systems. Also, our command of sources of energy to produce fertilizer, and run farming machinery means that 2% of the domestic population can grow enough food that we are still a net-exporter of food. That is pretty incredible when you think about it.

However, when it comes to trying to create a "tribe" there are a few things to keep in mind... the one thing I never see anyone talking about when they speak of survival skills is management experience. While this may sound trite, being able to manage and motivate people is a very important quality to have. I will point out, I don't mean someone who has been a shift lead at McDonalds, or your jerkface boss. Good managers are the key to dynamic and successful organizations, inefficient managers are tolerated today because most of the systems where they exist have enough largess that they can tolerate a certain amount of friction.

In a SHTF future, resources will be scarce and waste cannot be tolerated, waste equates to a missed meal, a cold night without a fire, a life threatening infection, and dead people, so having good management is key to forming a successful tribe, otherwise your tribe will look like something off a reality TV show, where everyone wants to vote everyone else off, or people are colluding against one another.

If you don't have a manager, or don't have a clear leader, you should at the very least realize the qualities you will need in a leader and manager. At the same time, putting yourself into a leadership role without having the necessary qualifications will likely be equally disastrous. I would suggest reading "How to Win Friends and Influence" and take it to heart.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influence_People

If you are not a good manager, consider finding one for your "tribe"

Great post AMP! That's been one of my favorite books since I read it for the first time at age 18.
 
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It seems to me that from history the biggest tribe takes away from smaller tribes. In a meltdown situation, how do you plan to form and manage a tribe ? I have three family members locally, but they are 2, 5, 8 miles distant. I suspect that after a few days being accepted into a tribe might be rather remote.

I'm pretty sure that acceptance would depend on what one brings to the party.
Me: Trained machinist, welder, fabricator.
Trained chef, able to cook for very large groups. Smoke meats and fish, canning.
Trained archer.
Many years gardening, wood working, fishing, hunting, survival studies.
Trained expert marksman, heavily armed, U.S. Army.
Trained company first aid and safety officer for many years (not an EMT).
Wife: 40+ years Regestered Nurse.
Years gardening, canning, sewing, expert quilt maker.
Fair shot.
That obviously isn't all, people are complicated creatures, just some stuff off the top of my head. Most folks have some skill or redeeming feature.
 
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I'm pretty sure that acceptance would depend on what one brings to the party.
Me: Trained machinist, welder, fabricator.
Trained chef, able to cook for very large groups. Smoke meats and fish, canning.
Trained archer.
Many years gardening, wood working, fishing, hunting, survival studies.
Trained expert marksman, heavily armed, U.S. Army.
Trained company first aid and safety officer for many years (not an EMT).
Wife: 40+ years Regestered Nurse.
Years gardening, canning, sewing, expert quilt maker.
Fair shot.
That obviously isn't all, people are complicated creatures, just some stuff off the top of my head. Most folks have some skill or redeeming feature.

Very good perspective. It really comes down to something like, 'Just what are you worth to the tribe?' For some of us, the only value to the tribe might be the amount of 'Goods' we have accumulated ... but then those can always be taken. Learned skills cannot.
 
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Very good perspective. It really comes down to something like, 'Just what are you worth to the tribe?' For some of us, the only value to the tribe might be the amount of 'Goods' we have accumulated ... but then those can always be taken. Learned skills cannot.

Exactly! And if you can or appear to be able to defend your goods, that could, in and of itself have sufficient value to a tribe! My head is starting to hurt! LOL!!!
 
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I suspect many will be forced to join a tribe, whether they believe in what that tribe is about or not. Those that don't join will be killed. That is the way it will probably go down in the cities, until the food supply dries up. Those tribes will then begin to venture into the rural areas looking for food, not new members. Be prepared and well armed.
 
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My "group", really small these days with a lot of people having moved for better job markets, thinks a lot about this sort of thing. We are actually in the process of selecting a sort of occupational skill set, so that we would have a useful trade after a collapse. At the moment, we are training to act as small-goods transportation specialists. Mailmen, essentially. Or couriers, which sounds a bit more exciting but amounts to the same thing. People will always need information, messages, and packages passed around distant areas. It also overlaps a lot with scouting, another useful skill.
 
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A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.

-Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love

I read this over 50 years ago and it has always stuck in my mind.
 
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A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.

-Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love

I read this over 50 years ago and it has always stuck in my mind.

Same here; there is also Farnham's Freehold by Heinline (same author), he had a large impact on me as well. in the 1970's his Stranger In A Strange Land was a hippie cult fav, even though he was one of the FOWGs that had lived through the Great Depression and WW2.
As to Tribes there will be 1000's of them and most will disappear, reform under a stronger leaders in ever smaller numbers, but of course if food runs-out the Leaders will go the same way.
Food/shelter seeking mobs and defense from same will be the driving factors even after Long Pork becomes a selected item on the menu. Forming a tribe will become easier and easier, if one has food.
 
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