Fire Restrictions in Arizona

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by wifininja021, May 3, 2018.

  1. wifininja021

    wifininja021
    Arizona
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    I tried to post this in Arizona Shooting Areas but it said I didn't have sufficient privileges. If it needs to be moved please tell me how.

    So yesterday, May 2, me and my boys loaded up to shoot near East Price Rd (Price Station RD) AND the 79 in Florence, AZ at a designated shooting area for the public. Once we pulled up I started to pull my table out and a Ranger pulled up and said that fire restrictions were in effect and that they were about to post signs. He gave us a website, www.blm.gov, to check in the future. We stayed for a while and started cleaning up shells and casings that had been left by others. I had my 3 young ones plus my cousin and his who is interested in learning more about firearms. I told him we always bring trash bags to carry out what we bring in and try to grab 1 extra bag each that isn't ours to help keep trash left by shooters low. After 45 mins another shooter came and we told him what we were told. He said he spoke with PCSO right before because they were his friends and they said he was ok. So my question is what is the right thing to do in regards to the warning were given. Should we take his warning and not shoot, ask questions to figure out what authority he has, or just start shooting when we're ready? We did ask if he knew where we could shoot that day and he said that he wasn't local (said he was from Tucson) and unfamiliar with the area. His car was clearly marked and he had a uniform, badge, and gear. We followed his warning and didn't shoot. However it was frustrating that we received a warning and then within the hour someone else comes along and starts shooting. Thanks for your input.

    *edited website for correct address
     
  2. nvshooter

    nvshooter
    Nevada
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    You did the best thing to not shoot. Suppose a bullet of yours hit a rock. The energy in that velocity has to go somewhere. Best way for the energy to bleed away is in the heat of a spark. We all know what happens when a spark meets-up with dry grass. Here in Nevada, a person who starts a fire because he was shooting where he should not have been can be assessed up to $10,000 for the costs to extinguish the fire. In comparison, that's a screamin' bargain because fires cost millions and millions to put out. The $10,000 liability is there as an incentive to keep you from doing what you know deep in your heart is not the smart thing to do, as in "Do I have $10,000 to give to the Arizona Department of Forestry so I can pop-off a few rounds where the grass is really dry?" Only a real moron would say Yes...
     
  3. wifininja021

    wifininja021
    Arizona
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    Thanks for your reply. We thanked him for letting us know and then cleaned up a bit of trash. The reason I was asking is because I told my brother about what happened and he said "F... that guy." I love my brother but he is as stubborn as a mule sometimes. He did have me second guessing myself though.

    Do you know where I can get information about shooting when there are restrictions? I looked at the BLM sit and I'm on my phone. I couldn't find any map about what areas are restricted or if its all outdoor shooting state wide. I am going to see if Usery Pass Shooting Range has the same restriction since they're an outdoor range with Range Officers and other staff.
     
  4. nvshooter

    nvshooter
    Nevada
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    I live in Nevada, but we hear reports on the local radio about when fire season starts and ends. Maybe try the local sheriff's office or your local/county fire department. I'm guessing these agencies would know, because they'd get the call when enough smoke has risen to be seen from the nearest highway or subdivision.
     
  5. nmwabbit

    nmwabbit
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  6. targetshooter

    targetshooter
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    There are usually reports on the major TV stations that give areas of fire warnings, and in So AZ it will usually be county by county, sometimes more specific. I wouldn't believe anybody who's not an official of a state or federal government organization, and can prove it with a badge or official ID.
     
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  7. MadDuner

    MadDuner
    Anywhere I Want
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    Risk vs Reward meter appears to be functioning correctly!

    You did the right thing.
     
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  8. old4570guy

    old4570guy
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    Have never seen a fire started by a copper and lead bullet other than tracers. Or a Muzzle-Loader. But I abide by all fire restrictions. Yavapai county gave out over 300 citations.
     
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  9. nvshooter

    nvshooter
    Nevada
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    I didn't think a gilding metal & lead bullet could start a fire either until I heard it on Reno radio a year or so ago from a man who fights desert fires. The kinetic energy in the velocity of the bullet has to go somewhere once the bullet is fired. Normally that energy bleeds away as the bullet travels through the air, until it eventually falls to Earth-- preferably into soft dirt that consumes all the remaining energy. But if the bullet, still moving very fast, should hit a rock the remaining energy must be released in some manner. I learned in freshman chemistry at the University of Arizona in 1977 that the energy in chemical reactions is very often released as heat. The burning of gunpowder is a chemical reaction. A 250-grain slug moving at 2,864 fps leaves the muzzle with 4000 pounds-feet of kinetic energy. The energy drops as the velocity drops, but there is still a bunch of wham! left at 300 yards (2300 pounds-feet of KE) to kill a bear or an elk. If the bullet hits a rock instead of an elk, that energy must be conserved in some way. Let us say the rock is a big one and it's not going to move, so the energy must go somewhere else. The only way for that energy to be dissipated is to have it bleed-off as heat. A spark is heat. If there is dry grass nearby, a grass fire can result. I know I am writing about things with which I am beyond ignorant but we see it every year here, in Nevada. Every year, some numbskull will go out and shoot in the desert when it's closed because of fire dangers. Not me. When I hear on the radio that there is to be no shooting in the desert, I do not go. Last thing I want is to start a grass fire that costs $5 million to put it out...
     
  10. billdeserthill

    billdeserthill
    Cave Creek, AZ
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    Super scary how impossibly fast a desert fire can spread
     
  11. AZgunGuy

    AZgunGuy
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    Also, there are other considerations when people are shooting such as smoking etc when not at a range. The flash point of dry grass is roughly 515F and the problem is, its easier to say no shooting allowed then saying no steal core or any other ammo that can cause sparks. There are so many variables that can help start a a fire on top of the energy dissipation of the round or the flash from a muzzle of someone standing too close to a dead tree or something. Another thing to consider, even though the lead/copper bullet wont spark, if you hit a rock which shatters and sends that piece rock into another rock that contains the smallest amount of ferrous material it could spark. Many different alloys exist in the manufacturing of different rounds. All it takes is one individual out of the bunch to not be as careful then we have more fodder for the anti-gun debate......"Gun causes $20mil in damages and kills more then parkland! MUST BAN GUNS!"
     
  12. nvshooter

    nvshooter
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    The gun-grabbers will twist, contort or fabricate any piece of information true or untrue, to advance their anti-Liberty ideology toward their goal of no firearms ownership by anyone other than selected elites of their political bent and by the military that is always needed to establish, enforce and maintain a dictatorship. The designs of the Evil Left in 2018 is exactly why the Framers amended the original 1787 draft of the Constitution to include the Bill of Rights. The Constitution establishes the United States as a constitutional republic. That is all well and good, but the Bill of Rights serves to limit the power of the established government. Imagine if the US had a government with no limits, no checks, no balances and no enumerated Freedoms. We'd be a dictatorship like North Korea, or some such place where the individual citizen is little more than an insect waiting to be crushed by the boots of government...
     
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  13. wifininja021

    wifininja021
    Arizona
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  14. wifininja021

    wifininja021
    Arizona
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    Also I got a map that shows land ownership. It should come in handy when I have questions.
     
  15. nvshooter

    nvshooter
    Nevada
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    You are doing your due diligence. Always a good idea to know on whose land you are before you start shooting.

    There is an Indian reservation very close to where I live. Everybody knows not to go there and start blastin' away. It's tribal law that anyone who is not an Indian cannot shoot on Indian land. To be caught doing so means confiscation of your firearms in the least and maybe even the taking of the transportation that got you out there. Violators can be arrested by the Tribal Police and it just gets worse from there. We have plenty of open land around here; finding a nice place to let the lead fly is not at all difficult...
     
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  16. Bigmalcolm

    Bigmalcolm
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    I would have taken heed to what the first fellow said, and then took that opportunity to make a new friend by helping him clean up. I tend to go by what I'm hearing and not what I've heard! Being that he was the acting patrol at the time I would have respected his words.
     
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  17. Tony in Az

    Tony in Az
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    There is no study by the forest service or BLM that shooting causes fires. It just doesn't exist, sorry. The problem is that idiots shoot at things that cause fires (like gasoline or propane cans). All the evidence for shooting starting fires is anecdotal meaning fire crews have to put out fires where people are shooting. Black powder rifle studies by the forest service can't even start fires. If you have a study that suggest otherwise feel free to post, I'd love to see it. Haven't found one in the decade I've been looking.

    Oh, and if you're responsible, you can always shoot on private land that isn't posted no trespassing. Perhaps a nice 640 acre section that is owned by a mining company near Reymert would work.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2018
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  18. targetshooter

    targetshooter
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    Wow, that's a novel thought process. When someone fires a weapon that ignites something that turns the landscape into a raging inferno, it can be simply stated that a dummy SHOOTING IN AN UNCONTROLLED MANNER CAUSED A FIRE. Had it not been for the ACT OF SHOOTING, there would have been NO FIRE. It was caused by a bullet being forcibly ejected from the barrel of a firearm by an explosion in the cartridge caused by a firing pin being released by the intentional act of a human with the intent of SHOOTING THE WEAPON!
     
  19. Tony in Az

    Tony in Az
    Arizona
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    You are far more likely to get a fire from a catalytic converter or a spark from a non-spark arrestor muffler than shooting (do they ban folks with vehicles like they do shooters?). That's all I'm saying. Also, it's putting out fires that causes nasty fires. If they'd just let the desert burn naturally, there would be no issue whatsoever. It's putting out fires that causes the build up of fuel that's the problem. The forests are different. Putting out fires in the forest was started by loggers (in about 1905) wanting to protect the trees for harvest. Now with treehugging, Arizona's forests are 10 times more dense than they would be naturally. Only now have they started the process of thinning the forests to manageable levels.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2018
  20. targetshooter

    targetshooter
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    TELL THAT TO THE PEOPLE OF SONOITA WHO ALMOST GOT BURNED OUT TWICE LAST YEAR FROM THE SAME FIRE THAT WAS STARTED BY A L.E.O. SHOOTING AT EXPLODING TARGETS ON THE WEST SIDE OF CLEVELAND NATIONAL FOREST THAT CLIMBED OVER THE MOUNTAIN AND BURNED THOUSANDS OF ACRES OF DESERT BRUSH AND FORESTS.

    Don't care about the likelihood of starting a fire by any source, but facts is facts, TONY!
     

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