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If I were caught with an AR in the UK I'd go to prison, probably for several years. No, I'm thinking about the US.
Your post matches what I have read elsewhere and fits my own prejudices.
But perhaps others have some objections?
NV is correct, in the US firearms are not something that are owned by a co-op or the ladies bridge club. The soldiers in Vietnam complained about the M16 weapon because early versions developed a reputation for unreliability, frequently jamming and fouling, especially when not kept clean, a next-to-impossible task in the dust and mud of many Vietnam battlefields. They called it a Mattel gun because the grips were made by Mattle and had their logo.
 
NV is correct, in the US firearms are not something that are owned by a co-op or the ladies bridge club. The soldiers in Vietnam complained about the M16 weapon because early versions developed a reputation for unreliability, frequently jamming and fouling, especially when not kept clean, a next-to-impossible task in the dust and mud of many Vietnam battlefields. They called it a Mattel gun because the grips were made by Mattle and had their logo.
Yes. I was thinking of the US, but of how a neighborhood group which wanted to prepare, as a group, for possible serious social unrest, could best do so. I didn't mean collective ownership, but possibly getting a wholesale price from a firearms merchant.
 
Yes. I was thinking of the US, but of how a neighborhood group which wanted to prepare, as a group, for possible serious social unrest, could best do so. I didn't mean collective ownership, but possibly getting a wholesale price from a firearms merchant.
The more persons in your neighborhood who can buy, use, and train with firearms the safer you neighborhood will be in case of social unrest. The Korean Americans during the 1992 LA riots are a PERFECT example.

 
A few questions come to mind:

What the hell neighborhood do you live in? MOVE!

Doing the math, 100 folks x $2,000 each, you've got $200,000 to play with. Why not buy a surplus tank?

Is every individual in your neighborhood qualified to own a firearm in your country? That might affect the size of the tank you can buy.

What time frame are you looking at?
 
The more persons in your neighborhood who can buy, use, and train with firearms the safer you neighborhood will be in case of social unrest. The Korean Americans during the 1992 LA riots are a PERFECT example.

Yes. I think Koreans have had some experience with nearby neighbors coming into their neighborhood with evil intent.

Uncle Sam helped out then, but that was in the days when if a boy went into the girls' restroom, he would go to jail. Now someone who tries to stop him will go to jail.

Some years ago I went to a shooting range near Pasadena. I was quite surprised to see that about half the people there were Asians. Didn't know they were into hunting, but I guess they're assimilating. I didn't see how tight their groups were, but they're winning all the spelling contests, and I think the Marine Corps has found a strong correlation between marksmanship and ability to read ... so I wouldn't want to be downrange from the folks on that roof carrying a TV set out of one of their shops. "No, Kim ...headshot, headshot ...don't hit our merchandise! ... and not to forget windage..."
 
A few questions come to mind:

What the hell neighborhood do you live in? MOVE!

Doing the math, 100 folks x $2,000 each, you've got $200,000 to play with. Why not buy a surplus tank?

Is every individual in your neighborhood qualified to own a firearm in your country? That might affect the size of the tank you can buy.

What time frame are you looking at?
Thinking about the USA, land of my birth, now still flying high but ... i hear the stall warning beginning to stutter.

If you can move out of your neighborhood, other folks can move into it. They o where the nice stuff is, including the women. I think the Marketing Department call it "destination shopping".

Tanks are probably a bit more expensive than that, maybe someone here can comment ... probably only get one and half Humvees for that, but ..
even if we're talking surplus Shermans ... armored vehicles are essentially an offensive weapon. That's the next level.

At the moment, we're talking defense. Although it's true that when America had a Department of War, it won all its wars, including against the Wehrmacht, and when it shifted to the more politically-correct Department of Defense, it lost all its wars, against guys in sneakers.

$2000 is not chump change, for sure. But ... think of it this way:

(1) It's an investment. You've got a tangible asset, not like spending that much on a vacation.

(2) It's not going to go out of date, or wear out, very soon. (Okay, fifty years from now maybe there will facial-recognition software built into your scope that can distinguish a looter from a neighbor, and smart bullets that can turn ninety degrees ... but you're probably good for the next thirty years.)

(3) If our liberal friends keep advancing their agenda -- and I regret to report that it looks like they will, step by step -- you've got an appreciating asset. "When guns are outlawed, only shrewd investors will have guns."
What's the better investment, two thousand bucks for a couple of ounces of soft yellow metal which you can't eat, or the same for a beautiful AR15 and accessories which can even, in a real pinch, keep you fed, one way or the other, and can protect your more conventional assets if necessary?

(4) Some people find them sort of fun to mess around with in situations not involving social use. Dual use, I think they call it.

(5) If you ever need to use it ... and get some hits ... you can honestly say that you're improving the environment, which everyone is for nowadays. Okay, maybe there will be a temporary increase in carbon dioxide as the target returns to Mother Earth, but it would probably have eaten a lot of barbeque along the way, so you've made a net contribution to a better environment in more ways than one. Greenpeace should be delighted.
 
Greenpeace should be delighted.
To helsinki with them batsards. They're the ones who put spikes in trees. When a logger hits that spike with his chainsaw, very bad things can happen. I look at Greenpeace as nothing more than terrs, and they ought to be dealt with as we deal with terrs.
 
To helsinki with them batsards. They're the ones who put spikes in trees. When a logger hits that spike with his chainsaw, very bad things can happen. I look at Greenpeace as nothing more than terrs, and they ought to be dealt with as we deal with terrs.
They love every species but their own.
 
A $500 AR with a $200 optic, a bunch of mags and 5,000 rounds of practice ammo can be had for that $2,000. Shoot about half of that ammo in some disciplined training scenario and everybody is ready to rock.
 
A $500 AR with a $200 optic, a bunch of mags and 5,000 rounds of practice ammo can be had for that $2,000. Shoot about half of that ammo in some disciplined training scenario and everybody is ready to rock.
Yeah, that's what I thought as well ... starting about sixty years ago, I got some experience with the M1 Garand and also the Carbine (in High School ROTC), then a few years later with the M14 and M16 at Tigerland, and it seemed to me that the 16 could be used by just about anyone whereas the bigger weapons might be a bit problematic. But it's been a while and I haven't been able to keep up with developments, living abroad. So I wondered if there was something better for people who were not gun enthusiasts but who might be required to suddenly become gun enthusiasts, if the US keeps moving in the direction it seems to be moving in. (I'm outside the pot they're starting to boil the frogs in.)

Would you think the optics are necessary? I never had one, just the iron sight. Might not the $200 be better spent on a flak vest? Or does 'optics' mean something like a Starlight Scope for night vision?
 
I was thinking more along the line of a Red Dot Scope system. There is nothing more simple than the concept of where the red dot is - is where the bullet hits.
Got it. The world moves on.

I recall something about zeroing my weapon for 25 meters and the parabolic trajectory will also bring the rounds back in (in a more spread out group) at 250 meters, where -- again, it's been a while -- supposedly most engagements take place, implying at 150 meters the rounds are going over their heads ... not that I would want to test that out ... that close, firing tracers the trajectory looked pretty flat to me ...but ... "get fancy, get beat" I say and the idea of just putting the red dot in the right place and pulling -- no, squeezing!!! -- the trigger sounds right to me, and something the Ladies Bridge Club could catch onto pretty fast.

Thanks for your input.
 
I recall something about zeroing my weapon for 25 meters and the parabolic trajectory will also bring the rounds back in (in a more spread-out group) at 250 meters . . . . implying at 150 meters the rounds are going over their heads ...
I don't think the "lurch" is enough to have the bullets pass overhead at 150 metres. Unless I have my head deeply inserted, I'm kind of remembering the rise above line-of-sight for the M-16A1 with the A2 forward sight base is about four inches. Maybe six. I'd have to go look, but I'm pretty sure it ain't all that much. The average combat distance in Vietnam was 35 meters. You'd want your bullet to hit dam-ned close to where you aim when you can see the white areas in the eyes of the enemy.
 
. . . . 5,000 rounds of practice ammo can be had for that $2,000.
Smart shopping can identify remanufactured ammo for about thirty cents per round. That's $1500. Add the $700 for the rifle and the optic, and you're just a little over that $2000. But what's $200 when you need to keep breathing? I'm getting emails from various dealers who are offering AR-type rifles at less than $500. Seems like it's a good time to buy one for those who already do not have a dozen or so...
 
I don't think the "lurch" is enough to have the bullets pass overhead at 150 metres. Unless I have my head deeply inserted, I'm kind of remembering the rise above line-of-sight for the M-16A1 with the A2 forward sight base is about four inches. Maybe six. I'd have to go look, but I'm pretty sure it ain't all that much. The average combat distance in Vietnam was 35 meters. You'd want your bullet to hit dam-ned close to where you aim when you can see the white areas in the eyes of the enemy.
Yes, that sounds right. It wasn't throwing baseballs. Anyway, grey is all theory and ever green the tree of life, and the thing to do for someone who has just gotten a shiney new AR15 for Christmas is to get out to the firing range or Cousin Bob's farm (with a backstop) and just get some experience with the thing. My guess is that in a real life situation people will just point them at the right compass point and blaze away.
 
Smart shopping can identify remanufactured ammo for about thirty cents per round. That's $1500. Add the $700 for the rifle and the optic, and you're just a little over that $2000. But what's $200 when you need to keep breathing? I'm getting emails from various dealers who are offering AR-type rifles at less than $500. Seems like it's a good time to buy one for those who already do not have a dozen or so...
I would absolutely agree. People tend to think that because today was like yesterday, that tomorrow will be like today ...and they're usually right, because we cannot see the little changes going on below the surface ... the children in school who are being subtly indoctrinated by that nice teacher, the policeman who decides not to make that stop because he might get killed or, if he defends himself, might find himself in jail --- and the punk he shot in self-defense turned into a martyr and praised at the next national Democratic convention. And so it goes. Rome didn't just suddenly collapse ... little things changed day by day, too small to see ...until suddenly... anyway, yes, a few hundred dollars invested in ammuntion will almost certainly not be wasted, especially if they move to ban these things. That's just the first step but it's the right first step.
 
Are_you_serious.jpg

Aloha, Mark
 
. . . . if they move to ban these things.
Trump has said repeatedly that he will not let those who abhor Individual Liberty destroy our Second Amendment. I see him vetoing any ban and sending the bill back to the House and Senate-- and let them batsards vote to deny our Liberty. Let those cowards put their names on a vote to deny what The Framers from Summer 1787 to December 1791 asked of the People. If they deny the Liberty endowed to us by God, they have signed their own warrants for their removal from Congress.

I'm no scholar of the Constitution, but I believe it's the Seventh Amendment that states all Amendments are of equal force and equal value regardless of enumeration, and that to negate or diminish even one negates and diminishes them all. So to diminish the Second also diminishes the First, Fourth, Fifth and any others the Criminal Left loves so much. Actually, the Criminal Left hates the Constitution because it limits the power of the federal government. Tyrants have no use for limits on their power; this is why we see so many laws come out of the Chambers that even sound unconstitutional to those who are least interested in what Washington passes-down to the People.

We who love our Freedom must keep the Party of Lincoln in power in the Senate, lest the Criminal Left wrest it from us and begin adding more Justices to the Supreme Court. Imagine the Liberty we have known for so long surviving when fourteen out of nineteen Supreme Court Justices are so far Left that no one person we can think of today would come close. Imagine Himmlery Rotten Klantoon on the Court. Imagine Sick Willy Klantoon on the Court. Imagine Lani Guinere on the Court. Imagine Chucky Bullschumer on the Court. Imagine Kenyabama on the Court. Might as well have the High Command of the Third Reich on the Court. The Criminal Left seeks the destruction of this nation and every Individual Liberty so enumerated in the Constitution. About that there can be no argument. The 2020 election may very well be the first day of the beginning of the end of this nation. I am forever so happy I have no kids who would have to live in a nation ruled by the insanity of liberalism...
 

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